The X’s & O’s

Being a business owner takes a lot of dedication and commitment. You put many hours into making sure your business runs smoothly, but do you know how much your business is worth? Today’s show focuses on why you may want to consider having a business valuation completed in order to have a plan set in place for some tricky situations.


Listen to the podcast episode…

The Hosts:

Brent Pasqua, Matthew Theal and Joshua Winterswyk




Matthew Theal: Welcome to the Retirement Plan Playbook. I’m Matthew Theal, financial advisor with RPA Wealth Management. I’m joined as always by Joshua Winterswyk. Josh, how you doing today?

Joshua Winterswyk : I’m doing well Matt. Thanks.

Matthew Theal: It’s great to see you. And also with us as always our president, leader, financial advisor, and recently a tee ball coach, Brent Pasqua. Brent, how are you today?

Brent Pasqua : Doing great. And even better now that we’re live and ready to record.

Matthew Theal: Yeah. I’m excited for today’s show. We’re going to talk about 10 reasons why business owners should consider getting a business valuation done. But first Brent, Little League World Series in your future? What’s going on?

Brent Pasqua : Oh yeah, I’m taking this tee ball team straight to the top. So this is the first year that my son is actually in official tee ball league. And I told my wife when she signed him up that, “Hey, just let the coach know that I would step in and help out if they needed an assistant coach. And I’d be there.” Because I like sports and I like watching my son play and just being there to help him. And so last week we got a call that there was so many kids that signed up that they needed to split the team into two. And they needed another coach.

Brent Pasqua : So I think that the first message came straight to me was about, “Hey, we need another coach. So we need to get somebody in there. Would you do it?” And so of course I said, “Yes.” So I’ve never actually coached baseball. I’ve coached other sports before. Coached hockey for many years and was around the sport. But I’ve played baseball up until I was 14 or 15 years-old. And then transitioned out and started playing hockey. But the reason I stopped playing baseball, and I don’t even know if you guys know this, is because I always got hit. Like I was always getting hit with the baseball. I’d be in the batter’s box and I would get hit all the time. And at some point when I was like 15 I was like, “I’m not doing this anymore.”

Joshua Winterswyk : You were a ball magnet?

Brent Pasqua : Yeah. I was like, “I’m not getting hit.”

Matthew Theal: You probably-

Brent Pasqua : It’s just not worth it. I’m not going to take a 80 mile an hour pitch to the hip anymore. I’m done.

Matthew Theal: First of all, they probably weren’t throwing 80 miles per hour when you were 12 years-old dude. All right, let’s ease up there. And second of all you’ve got to stop crowding the plate. What’s the matter with you? If I was pitching I would throw it at you too.

Brent Pasqua : I think at that age they just don’t have good aim. And so it’s duck and fire. So I was just done. But I’m super excited. We’re going to be very positive with the kids, teach them fundamentals, make it fun. And thanks to my research guys that are sitting at the table, found me all the research and criteria I needed to run these practices, the games, everything that I need to know and to be ready for. These two guys at the table have already done it for me. So I’m very thankful for that.

Joshua Winterswyk : We’re excited for you too. I think this is why this is the top or the head of the show, is we’re excited for you to start coaching. And I think we’ve already adopted the name coach for you here in the office.

Brent Pasqua : Yeah, I like that.

Matthew Theal: Yeah. And we’re also looking forward to eight years down the line when you’re at Williamsport coaching your son and his team to the Little League World Series. I’m sure it’s in your future.

Brent Pasqua : Well, I’ll tell you this, there’s not going to be any of that crazy parent on this team. This is all for fun. They’re five years-old and four years-old. It’s all about making it fun for them. And making them want to come back next year.

Matthew Theal: I’m sure some coach, it might not be you, will get thrown out of the game.

Joshua Winterswyk : I’m looking forward to that story.

Matthew Theal: Me too. All right. So today’s show, we are going to talk about the 10 reasons why business owners need to consider getting a valuation done. It’s something that’s really commonly overlooked with our business owner clients. They don’t really think about why they would want to get a business valuation done. Or frankly, they’re just too busy focusing on their business to get it done. So we’re going to jump right in. I’ll start with the first one. The first reason why a business owner would want to get their business valued is to better understand their business and its potential. Brent, what do you think about that?

Brent Pasqua : Back several years ago when we decided that we actually wanted to know what our business is worth, and there was multiple reasons why. We needed to figure out how we’re going to protect this business if something happened to me, my wife couldn’t run the business. It led us down this path of investigation to figure out how do we actually do these things? And the thing that we really needed to find out is how do we find out what our business is worth? Because if you don’t know what your business is worth, how can you actually grow it? How can you protect it? How can you exit the business? All of those are such critical factors. And that’s when it began, we need to get a valuation done on our business.

Matthew Theal: Yeah, that’s well put. It helps. That’s a great summary of what we’re going to talk about today. And also on the potential side, it kind of will give you a great idea as the business owner the steps you need to take in your business to help grow it. And obviously growing it is going to increase the amount of money that you, the business owner, take home. But also increase your business value at the end of the day. Joshua, what’s the second reason?

Joshua Winterswyk : The second reason why a business owner needs to get their business valued is to know the value of their largest asset so they can plan for retirement. So a lot of small business owners that we meet, their business is their largest asset. But they aren’t certain of what the actual value of the business is. So when we’re meeting with them to plan for retirement, they know a pretty accurate number of what they’re going to need in income in retirement, but they don’t really have an idea of what the business is worth. So for us to have an idea if they’re going to sell it, if they’re going to maintain within the business, we need to know what that value of that asset is to plan for it for retirement to solve for what they need for income in retirement.

Matthew Theal: Right.

Joshua Winterswyk : So looking at it from kind of starting from the future and working your way backwards, it’s just really the best way to plan for. Not only the exit for retirement, but the income for retirement. It’s just a really, really key component to the business is knowing what it’s worth for retirement planning.

Brent Pasqua : And I don’t even think most people even really have a good grasp or general idea a lot of times of what the business is worth. They think, could be this could be that. They’re probably shooting a lot of times higher than what it’s actually worth. But they really don’t know.

Joshua Winterswyk : Right. And that’s really… can cause a lot of problems for retirement planning if we’re just talking about that topic.

Brent Pasqua : Sure.

Joshua Winterswyk : And especially if you’re close to retirement, a lot of times we meet clients that are already in their sixties and they still don’t know what the business is worth.

Brent Pasqua : Right.

Joshua Winterswyk : So this just, a really big issue that we can solve is knowing what the value is worth earlier on than later so we can solve for that retirement income or retirement plan.

Brent Pasqua : Absolutely.

Matthew Theal: Yeah. It’ll set up the ability for them to exit when they do want to retire.

Joshua Winterswyk : Correct.

Matthew Theal: Right? Through an internal or external sale. Brian, what’s topic three?

Brent Pasqua : So topic two leads into topic three. And it’s to ensure the business and your family are properly protected. It’s really difficult to properly protect your family without actually knowing what your business is worth. Because how much do you protect it with, and how do you actually protect it? A lot of times people think that the only way to protect the business is through life insurance, but that’s not always necessarily true. There’s many ways that a business owner can protect their business.

Brent Pasqua : But you have to have key factors put into place that says, “If something happens to the business owner, how are the people outside or inside the business going to even be able to access and maintain a business?” Generally if it’s a one owner business and that person dies, chances are the wife’s coming in with the keys Monday morning, and then how are they going to actually run and maintain that business? A lot of times business owners don’t really have all of that detail figured out and there’s a lot to figure out there. It’s more than just, “Hey, we have some life insurance policy.”

Matthew Theal: Yeah. I think life insurance becomes popular for a business owner protection is because of the commissions on the other side from the insurance agent, right? And it’s usually most likely going to be the agent who’s selling them their general business policies is also like, “Oh hey, you probably should purchase this life insurance policy from me to protect your business.”

Brent Pasqua : Yeah. I think most advisors who generally work with business owners, their whole key in on all their planning is around, “Hey, how much life insurance can I sell you?” So that’s all they’re really trying to work on.

Joshua Winterswyk : I think the big question about that is how many people before they purchase insurance to protect the business are actually having the business valuated? It brings it back to the actual question or the factor of how many people are taking that step. Because how do you truly know how much insurance you needed without truly knowing what the value of the business is worth?

Brent Pasqua : And then one of the reasons that continuity plan and all the changes happen and you need a valuation updated is because what your business is worth today is so much different than two years or three years or four years from now.

Joshua Winterswyk : Correct. Yeah.

Brent Pasqua : It’s a constant process.

Joshua Winterswyk : Right. And what direction you’re taking the business.

Brent Pasqua : Absolutely.

Joshua Winterswyk : Are you taking a step back? Are you looking for more growth? And are you tracking that right?

Brent Pasqua : Right, absolutely.

Matthew Theal: Yeah. I think we already bled into topic number four, which is a succession plan.

Brent Pasqua : Right.

Matthew Theal: So we’re kind of going down that road right now, but what does a succession plan allow us to do?

Brent Pasqua : A succession plan really puts the next people in place in a disaster situation or an exit situation of who’s going to take over that business if something were to happen or when you do decide to exit the business? You’re having a succession plan put into place on who’s going to be the successor to you.

Matthew Theal: Talking about succession plan, I’m going to go on a little side rant here. Do either of you watch the HBO show Succession?

Joshua Winterswyk : Not yet. You recommended that I think.

Matthew Theal: Yeah.

Joshua Winterswyk : But I haven’t watched it yet.

Matthew Theal: It’s basically about a family owned business and their succession plan. It’s really cool. So yeah.

Joshua Winterswyk : I’ll have to check that out. It looks really good.

Matthew Theal: Recommend that.

Brent Pasqua : Nice.

Matthew Theal: Anything left on succession plan?

Brent Pasqua : No. I think there’s a lot of in depth detail that we can get into. But let’s go to number five.

Matthew Theal: All right. So number five is going to be, you pay the right amount when you buy a business. So it’s kind of like when you are trying to expand, you don’t want to buy a business that’s bigger than your business. You want to purchase a business that’s a little bit smaller that you could tack on and increase your business value. Knowing what your business value is worth will help you find acquisition targets that you could either bolt on to create other product lines or merge with your own company to create a bigger company.

Brent Pasqua : Correct.

Matthew Theal: Anything else?

Joshua Winterswyk : Yeah. I’d just like to add that it’s very valuable just if you’re going through the valuation process to understand how your industry’s valued. So if you’ve never went through a valuation process for your business, by going through it you’re going to have a better understanding of the factors that go into valuating your business to your specific industry.

Matthew Theal: Right.

Joshua Winterswyk : So then that way that helps with that, how much to buy that next business. Because you have a general idea of what’s going into those multiples to create that value within your industry.

Brent Pasqua : Right.

Brent Pasqua : Yeah. And then you could get a better idea of by bringing those two companies together, what’s your new multiple going to be, and how to really continue to increase it. And is it going to lead to a higher business worth as you bring that new business in?

Joshua Winterswyk : Yeah, that’s a great point. You kind of already have an idea of how that value is going to increase by bringing that business in. Right? Because you understand the multiples or whatever it is.

Brent Pasqua : Absolutely.

Matthew Theal: All right. Moving on to number six. Joshua, what’s our sixth reason?

Joshua Winterswyk : The sixth reason is get what it’s worth at the sell. So what this means is when a business owner is exiting the business, and they’re going to sell the business, let’s say to a outside sell, meaning someone else is coming from outside the company to purchase the business, they actually have an idea of what to sell it for. I know we kind of talked about that in that previous, or number five, but this is actually just a really good reason to get your business valued if you are looking to sell your business to an outsider because you will have an accurate number of what you’re asking for your business. Without having the evaluation done… How do you think business owners are coming up with the number of, “This is what I think my business is worth.”

Matthew Theal: Most business owners get fished by business brokers and investment bankers. And they will send them an email or some kind of a postcard or packet and it’ll say, “Hey, I have a buyer lined up for your business. They’re willing to pay X.”

Brent Pasqua : Right.

Matthew Theal: That’s how the owner, they think, “Oh, my business must be worth $5 million if they have this buyer.” But in reality it’s probably worth a lot more because they’re just sending you randomly generated lead cards or kind of like fishing emails, right? They’re just casting a line.

Joshua Winterswyk : Sending a postcard. I could sell your business. I have three buyers lined up.

Matthew Theal: Yep, exactly.

Brent Pasqua : I feel like it’s very similar marketing to how some real estates agents will market their business. Right?

Joshua Winterswyk : It’s a great example.

Matthew Theal: Yeah, great example. Absolutely. It’s actually the same business, selling a business and selling pieces of real estate.

Brent Pasqua : Right.

Joshua Winterswyk : We just sold 10 homes in your neighborhood and we can get a higher square foot for your house.

Matthew Theal: Exactly. Anything left on a number six?

Joshua Winterswyk : I think we’re good.

Matthew Theal: All right. Let’s move on to number seven. Number seven would be, this relates to businesses that have business partners. So if you’re in a 50/50 partnership, you need to create a buy-sell agreement. And you can’t create a buy-sell agreement unless you know the business is worth. So what a buy-sell agreement is, it’s going to be a contract that lays out how a partner will exit the business, either through some kind of separation, like a fight, or if one partner’s disinterested in the business.

Joshua Winterswyk : Or retiring.

Matthew Theal: Or retiring. A buy sell agreement will help get that done. And in order to do that, you need to know what the business is worth. Anything left?

Joshua Winterswyk : Probably like a prenuptial agreement.

Matthew Theal: That’s a great example.

Joshua Winterswyk : Right? Like you plan everything out before something bad happens in a business, you probably want to do that also.

Matthew Theal: Did either of you guys have prenuptial agreements?

Joshua Winterswyk : I don’t. I did not sign one and I just got married.

Brent Pasqua : No.

Matthew Theal: I don’t have one either. But I bet Haley’s wishing she made me sign one.

Brent Pasqua : Yeah I know right. Hopefully she doesn’t listen this part of the show.

Joshua Winterswyk : I think that might be a future topic though, because I think that’s something that’s not talked about a lot that a lot of people have questions about.

Matthew Theal: Yeah, that’s a great idea. All right, let’s move on to number eight. Joshua, what is number eight?

Joshua Winterswyk : Exploring funding opportunities. So when a business, let’s say their driver is growth. So they’re looking to grow the business and to make the business more valuable. If they have a starting point of what they know that the value of the company is today, they can better understand where they need to actually find funding or influx funding into the business. So with knowing that value, they’re able to actually go out and find funding opportunities to increase the value. And then also on the exit side, this could also be applicable of saying, “How am I going to fund my exit if I don’t know what the value is?”

Matthew Theal: Right.

Joshua Winterswyk : So having the company valuated we can actually understand what opportunities are out there to fund my exit from the business. So if I’m going to leave the business and now I know the value, I can now go look and see what opportunities are out there to fund my actual exit, whether if it’s to an outsider or an insider.

Matthew Theal: Yeah, absolutely. So if a business is looking to grow, they have two options, they’re going to need cash most likely.

Brent Pasqua : Right.

Matthew Theal: Their first option is to sell equity or sell shares in the company. And they can raise cash that way. Or they can go to the debt markets and create some kind of debt instrument and get money that way. Both will have an effect on their business valuation.

Brent Pasqua : Right. You need to have your valuation or know what your business is worth to do either one of those basically.

Matthew Theal: Right. And then you could look, “Okay. Am I going to add positive value by adding debt or am I going to add negative value? And vice versa  with equity.

Joshua Winterswyk : Right.

Brent Pasqua : It provides a clear picture for the business owner.

Matthew Theal: Absolutely. All right. Let’s move on to number nine Brent, what’s number nine?

Brent Pasqua : Number nine is establish a trust or create an estate plan. Right now we know estate planning thresholds, and estate tax thresholds are very high. But those can at any point come back down. And at some point you’re going to need to have that business inside your trust and at some point you’re going to want to, when you pass away that asset or that business or what’s left of that business to go to the next generations. And because of that you’re going to need a trust to avoid or reduce as much taxes as possible as that gets distributed to the beneficiaries.

Matthew Theal: Well put. Joshua, anything to add?

Joshua Winterswyk : No, I think just the valuation helps with tax efficiency in that estate plan.

Matthew Theal: Perfect. Yeah it does. All right. And that will actually bleed into number 10, which is it helps you prepare for a taxable event such as gifting or grants. So one thing I’ll say is if you have a business that is already worth probably 5 million plus, 10 million plus, kind of getting up there or even as high as getting into that 20 million range where you’re really up against the estate tax threshold. You want to figure out strategies to get that business out of your estate, and to kind of start either gifting it away or using a complex trust to remove it from your estate so you don’t have to pay estate taxes.

Joshua Winterswyk : Yeah, great. Yeah. There’s a lot of strategies out there when you’re above that estate tax threshold to reduce that tax bill. And I know a lot of business owners that that could benefit if your business is over that tax threshold.

Matthew Theal: Totally. And there’s no way to know if you’re up against that threshold unless you know what your business is worth.

Joshua Winterswyk : That’s a great point.

Brent Pasqua : Right. And you don’t want your kids to be surprised and writing a big check to the IRS. And that could lead to a fire sell of other assets, you’re selling property, and pay state tax rules because you can’t get assets out of your business because you’re passed away. There’s a lot of problems that can happen.

Matthew Theal: Absolutely. And that’s how quite a few family businesses get destroyed.

Brent Pasqua : Absolutely. There’s no cash to pay that tax.

Matthew Theal: All right, anything left on are 10 reasons?

Brent Pasqua : What’s next?

Matthew Theal: All right, well let’s move on. Joshua, what can business owners expect to get if they do a valuation?

Joshua Winterswyk : Business owners can expect to get an idea of what the business is worth. So putting an actual dollar value to their business. They also will receive a specific value driver of the business value. So you’re able to see what’s actually driving the value of the business. And those are things that you can take back to your office and say, “These specific factors we’re focusing on to generate a higher valuation for the business.” Anything to add on that one?

Matthew Theal: Yeah. So an example would be like let’s say in the financial advice industry, which we’re in, our business value is driven by our clients. If we don’t have any clients, we don’t have any revenue. So we don’t have any value. Did I say that right, Brent?

Brent Pasqua : Yeah, absolutely.

Joshua Winterswyk : And another thing that owners can expect to get is a comparison of your company versus companies inside your industry. And this is, we talked about this a little bit about if you’re looking for an acquisition to better understand businesses also within your industry. But doing that comparison can really help make future decisions because we can become more efficient in different areas that you’re less efficient in when you’re comparing them to your industry. So I think that’s just a really valuable piece that business owners will get out of the valuation process, is how are we doing against our competition?

Matthew Theal: I agree. It’s like stacking up like let’s look at social media companies, right? I think we could all agree Facebook’s the biggest and best social media company from a metrics standpoint.

Joshua Winterswyk : Sure.

Matthew Theal: And then Snapchat’s looking up at them. And they don’t compare as favorably.

Joshua Winterswyk : Sure. Right.

Matthew Theal: Which is the difference in the stock prices.

Brent Pasqua : Right.

Matthew Theal: It’s the same in middle market business world.

Brent Pasqua : Yeah. Most people should want to know how they’re doing in key areas and know ways to improve.

Joshua Winterswyk : And I feel like a lot of business owners have those questions but don’t know how to go out and get the answers.

Brent Pasqua : Right. Or even gauge them.

Matthew Theal: Right.

Brent Pasqua : Right? If you don’t have a valuation, you don’t know your key performance metrics, then how are you going to actually gauge where to improve?

Joshua Winterswyk : Right.

Matthew Theal: All right. So let’s say I’m a business owner and I’m listening to this podcast right now. And we’re bringing up some good points and they’re thinking to themselves, “Hey. Yes, I want to get a valuation done. This makes sense for me.” Brent, what are their options?

Brent Pasqua : There are a few different ways that you could do and have a valuation done. One is through online software. Technology, just like it has in most industries in other areas has advanced so much over the last 10, 15, 20 years that now there’s online softwares that we could use to plug in all the information and it can really give us a pretty decent idea of what the business is worth. You can get really, really close to finding out what your business is worth by plugging in those important factors inside of your business.

Brent Pasqua : Some of them are the balance sheets of profit and loss statements and so forth, to give you a really good idea of what you have there for a value of a business. The second way to do it is you could hire a certified valuation advisor. You can get with an advisor, they’re going to plug all of your information into their software, but they’re going to get and be a little bit more hands on. They’re going to go in depth with your books. They’re going to talk about those with you. They’re going to be meeting with you. And they’re going to be able to provide you a really, really good detailed number of what your business is worth, and clean up some areas on areas that they can think that you can make a higher valuation.

Joshua Winterswyk : It sounds like hiring a certified valuation adviser is more expensive than the online software.

Brent Pasqua : Very much so. The range of what a an advisor can cost can range anywhere from the $5,000 range up to 15, 20,000. Or even more just depending on the size of the business. But it’s going to be a little bit more hands on. Important, especially if you’re thinking about really exiting in the next year or something.

Matthew Theal: Yeah, I would agree. Hiring a valuation professional is extremely important if you are looking at selling your business now, the next five years, you’re going to want human eyes on it.

Brent Pasqua : Absolutely.

Matthew Theal: If you’re just looking for a value and some ideas on how to grow your business or kind of like a starting point, online software is a great option. Can I read to you guys though? I did some research before this show. All of the different credentials a valuation adviser can have?

Brent Pasqua : Yeah.

Matthew Theal: It’s a pretty long list. So you could be a certified valuation analyst, that’s a CVA. You could be in the American Society of Appraisers, that’s an ASA. You could be an accredited business valuation, an ABV. Or you could be a certified business appraiser, a CBA.

Joshua Winterswyk : Those are a lot of different accreditations.

Brent Pasqua : Which one’s the best?

Matthew Theal: I don’t know. I don’t know how you pick. I like the way certified valuation analyst sounds personally.

Brent Pasqua : Yeah. So you’re just going based on the way it’s titled, huh?

Matthew Theal: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It sounds professional.

Brent Pasqua : Yeah. Logical, I guess.

Matthew Theal: And then another way you can get your business valued is if you are looking to sell, business brokers will do a valuation. Usually they have one of the valuation analysts working in their office. The key is they’re actually most likely not going to charge you for that.

Brent Pasqua : Right. Why would they do that, Matthew?

Matthew Theal: Well, they want you to sign a contract so they could list your business just like you would sign a contract to list a house with them.

Brent Pasqua : I see.

Joshua Winterswyk : And have an in house appraiser that’ll do it for you.

Matthew Theal: They do have an in house appraiser that’ll do it for you.

Brent Pasqua : I see. So back to the real estate thing. So they come in, they’ll tell you what your house is worth but then they want to put it on the market for you.

Matthew Theal: Absolutely.

Joshua Winterswyk : Very nice. Matt, now that we kind of went over what options you have to get a valuation done. Can you tell the audience what documents they’ll need to get this valuation done for their business?

Matthew Theal: Yeah absolutely. So you’re going to need four main types of documents. The first thing that you’re going to kind of want to know off hand is your entity type. So are you an S Corp, you’re an LLC, are you C Corp, are you a partnership? Have an idea of which one you are. Then you’re going to want to use your accounting software. Hopefully you’re using QuickBooks, FreshBooks, or one of the more popular accounting softwares. And you’re going to want to run three years of balance sheet data.

Matthew Theal: So an example would be if you’re doing a valuation in 2019 you would want to run 2018, 2017, and 2016s numbers. And then you’re also going to want to run three years of profit and loss in the same years like I just said. And then finally you’re going to want your business tax returns. That’ll verify all the information on your balance sheet and your profit and loss statement.

Brent Pasqua : Right. That makes sense.

Matthew Theal: And then finally, one key tip I’ll give, and we see this all the time when we’re working with business owners, is make sure your books are kept accurately.

Brent Pasqua : Right.

Matthew Theal: Quickest way to destroy your valuation is to not have accurate books.

Brent Pasqua : Right.

Matthew Theal: The reason is, is your valuation is derived from your books.

Brent Pasqua : Yeah. And if you’re sitting there thinking, my books aren’t right and it would be such a headache to get your books right, it’s not. It can be, but it’s not. It does take time. But it’s so critical to the valuation. It’s so critical to your businesses future. If that were the case, call us. Let’s talk through some of those issues because we’ll get you connected in how to get those corrected and why it’s important. And it is so important to have the book’s accurate though.

Joshua Winterswyk : I feel like, and there’s a lot of small business owners that we meet that have this struggle.

Brent Pasqua : Yeah. We see it all the time. There’s just so many things that go into keeping the books right and what expenses are there and what’s not. And so it is an important factor, but just because your books aren’t right doesn’t mean that the end result can’t be there on getting the valuation done. It just means we’re going to add another step into getting it done.

Matthew Theal: Yeah. If your books are incorrect or if someone looks at you and tells you your books look funny, go get it fixed.

Brent Pasqua : Yeah. Because you’re going to have to get them fixed at some point.

Matthew Theal: Right.

Joshua Winterswyk : It’s just the non-glamorous part of owning a business, like the boring, tedious part of-

Matthew Theal: Right. It’s the first thing you should outsource.

Joshua Winterswyk : Right.

Brent Pasqua : And it’s time consuming and complicated.

Joshua Winterswyk : Right.

Brent Pasqua : Especially if you’re not dealing with it on a daily basis. So many businesses specialize in other things, not managing their books.

Joshua Winterswyk : Right.

Matthew Theal: Anything else?

Joshua Winterswyk : No. I think just to summarize the things you need, tax returns, profit and loss balance sheets for three years.

Matthew Theal: Yep, that’s correct.

Joshua Winterswyk : Yeah perfect.

Matthew Theal: That’ll get you started. Okay. So we have actually developed a little site for business owners to go to. So if you go to, we have some tools and resources on there for business owners. The first is going to be a book on why you need to get your business valued. So this is an ebook, you come on in you put your email in and you could download it. And then the second that we offer for free is actually an valuation tool. It works the same. You could go on and you can complete your own business valuation. It’ll give you a quick idea of what your business is worth. And then you could decide if you want to take that next step and hire a business valuation specialist.

Joshua Winterswyk : Right.

Matthew Theal: So again, all of this is for free on our website. We’ll put a link in the show notes, but it’s All right. Let’s move on to our favorite segment.

Joshua Winterswyk : What’s that Matthew?

Matthew Theal: How do you know that business valuation wasn’t my favorite segment?

Matthew Theal: Well we like the recommends because it’s fun.

Joshua Winterswyk : Oh okay. I see.

Matthew Theal: Because we can pick on each other. All right. Who wants to go first?

Joshua Winterswyk : I’ll go first. I was kind of thinking about what I was going to recommend. I’m going to recommend something that’s kind of vintage. My wife and I have been burning through episodes of The Office. I think it was original NBC show, it’s on Netflix. And I hadn’t watched it up until about like six months ago. And so we’ve been watching a couple episodes a week just trying to get through the nine seasons before Netflix takes it off of their service. But hilarious. Fell in love with it. Like really sad I didn’t watch it when it was airing. And just really, really funny show. So if you’ve never checked out The Office, that’s what I’m going to recommend because that’s what me and my wife have been watching recently on our free time.

Brent Pasqua : That’s cool.

Joshua Winterswyk : Yeah.

Matthew Theal: It’s a great show. I haven’t watched as much as you, but I’ve watched a lot of it. And then I’ve also completed all of Parks and Rec, so I’ll add that. Both of them are great shows.

Joshua Winterswyk : Yeah, you told me that it’s kind of similar. And maybe that will be our next show after The Office. But really funny. We’re almost done. I think we have like five episodes left to complete all of it.

Matthew Theal: Now that I think of it. Are there any good 30 minute comedies running on network TV right now?

Joshua Winterswyk : I don’t know.

Matthew Theal: I don’t think there are. If someone listening to this podcast is watching a good 30 minute network TV comedy, please email Josh and I.

Joshua Winterswyk : Yes please.

Matthew Theal: Because I don’t think they exist anymore.

Joshua Winterswyk : I don’t know. Yeah, that’s a great, great point. Who wants to go next?

Brent Pasqua : I’ll go next. My RPA recommend for this show is AirPod’s. And I might be a little late to the party with these things, but these are game changing and life changing. And I’ll tell you why, because not only can you be uninterrupted when you get out of your car, if you’re listening to a podcast like Retirement Plan Playbook. And you go into the grocery store, you could still be listening, but if you work a job where you need your hands all day or you’re doing paperwork or you’re out in the field or you’re doing something, you can throw that in your ear and talk on the phone and continue to do whatever you’re working on without ever having to hold that phone to your ear. To me, it saves so much time, it is so beneficial.

Brent Pasqua : And if I forget my AirPod’s, my day is just completely thrown off. The other thing is is that the Bluetooth and phones, to me still aren’t perfect technology. They either cut out, they don’t sound great, they drop. There’s always problems it seems like with Bluetooth’s car. You can throw that into one of your ears, so if you need to hear a siren, you can hear it. But you could throw an AirPod on one ear and you could just continue your conversation. And it’s uninterrupted. It is a very, very perfect way to use and to communicate with people without having to hold something to your ear.

Matthew Theal: So I’ve had AirPod’s for two years pretty much. I think I was a first adopter there. But I was in line like a month ago.

Brent Pasqua : Of course you were.

Joshua Winterswyk : Yeah.

Matthew Theal: I was in line a month ago at the LAFC game. And Josh you might’ve been with me. But some guy was saying how there’s research out there that AirPod’s burn a hole in your brain. And since then I haven’t used them.

Brent Pasqua : Oh wow. So now you’re trying to scare everybody.

Matthew Theal: Oh I’m just trying to scare you.

Brent Pasqua : I thought they said that holding your cell phone to your ear is also very, very bad.

Joshua Winterswyk : Hey, you know what? I really enjoyed your explanation of the AirPod’s. because I have to agree with you, they are awesome. It took me a long time to get them. I think you guys have them like a whole year before I ever got some. And I think you guys like kind of forced me to buy them.

Brent Pasqua : So literally like before when I used to, like a year or two ago, when he used to see people walking through the store with them, I’m like, “That’s very strange. Like people just walking around. Like what are they rocking out to their music in the middle of the grocery store?” No. Or, “Waiting to take a phone call?” I just never understood really that concept of it. So I was probably a little too judgmental on those things. They are fantastic. Completely life changing. I don’t walk through the store with both them in my ear, if I need one on because I’m listening to something I want to be able to hear.

Joshua Winterswyk : But even when you’re in the store, like something that I thought of when you said that was like after work, right? You go to the grocery store, you got to go pick up something. And that’s a lot of times when, for me family calls, you might have a client call or something like that. And so instead of stopping what you’re doing, right, you hit your AirPod and you have both of your arms, you’re not distracted. You can just go on doing whatever you’re doing and talk to that person. So definitely a benefit of the AirPod’s that I love.

Brent Pasqua : Absolutely.

Matthew Theal: Most people are walking around in stores with AirPod’s in their ears because they don’t want you to bother them.

Brent Pasqua : Yeah, that makes sense.

Matthew Theal: All right. Moving on to my recommends.

Brent Pasqua : I don’t see a bunch of people in-

Joshua Winterswyk : Is that what you do?

Brent Pasqua : Hold on. I don’t see people generally getting bothered by other people in the grocery store but.

Matthew Theal: You guys shouldn’t shop at the Whole Foods that I shop at then. All right. Moving on to my recommend. I’m going to go go with LAFC. Josh and I are season ticket holders. We’ve mentioned it a few times on the podcast. It’s the best sporting event in Southern California. It’s so much fun. It’s a very quick sporting event. It’s soccer, so it’s not three, four hours like going to a baseball game, or a football game. It takes two hours. The game’s over. The stadium’s brand new and beautiful. And the season’s almost over. So get in now. We already know they’re raising ticket prices for next season. Take your family, go see a game. It is a ton of fun.

Joshua Winterswyk : Yeah, I have to agree. I was waiting for one of us to recommend LAFC. And it was you. But I definitely have to… Just can’t say enough good things about the sporting event. It is family friendly. It is good for a date night. It’s good to go with a group of girls, group of guys, whatever you want to do. It caters to so many demographics. And it’s brand new. Like you said, it’s beautiful. They have great food options. They have like, it’s basically a taste of LA inside the stadium, which is really, really cool. So if you’re a foodie, you’d like it too.

Matthew Theal: Craft beer too.

Joshua Winterswyk : Yeah.

Matthew Theal: They’re not selling just Bud and Miller. They have beer and craft beer.

Joshua Winterswyk : Yeah, just a really, really good environment. And they have a supporter section that you could really feel the passion inside the stadium of all of the fans, and really get involved in the game with the supporters that chant and they sing and cheer. So just a really, really great sporting event.

Brent Pasqua : Is this your recommend or is this his?

Joshua Winterswyk : This is his.

Brent Pasqua : Oh okay.

Joshua Winterswyk : I just kept going. It like sparked out fire in me.

Brent Pasqua : I know jeez. I like it also. It is a great environment. It’s very fun.

Matthew Theal: I think that we, all of us can agree besides you Brent, because I don’t know if you watch The Office, but we endorse everyone’s recommendations today.

Brent Pasqua : All right. I like that.

Joshua Winterswyk : Yes.

Brent Pasqua : I do like that.

Matthew Theal: All right. Anything left today?

Joshua Winterswyk : No. I think we’re good. Good topic.

Brent Pasqua : Yeah, I love that business valuations. I think they’re outstanding. I think they’re so important for businesses. And it’s really exciting to me and I’m sure you guys feel the same way to sit in front of a business owner and be able to tell them what their business is worth. And really teach them how to get a better value even for their business, and how to exit and make those dreams come true. That’s what it’s all about.

Joshua Winterswyk : Yeah.

Matthew Theal: Absolutely. Well put and if you are a business owner, remember to go to We’ll put a link in the show notes as well. Check out all the free resources we have online. Thank you for listening today. Have a great day.

Brent Pasqua : All right. Thank you.

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