The X’s & O’s

The presidential election is right around the corner and many clients have wondered if this event will have a significant impact on their portfolio. Brent, Matthew, and Joshua talk about why there is no need to emotionally react to the result of this election and the importance of long-term financial planning.

The Hosts:

Brent Pasqua, Matthew Theal and Joshua Winterswyk



Brent Pasqua: Welcome to the Retirement Plan Playbook. My name is Brent Pasqua, host and founder of RPA Wealth Management. We have a great show on deck. Guys, welcome back to the studio. Glad we’re back in here recording. We’re here with Matthew Theal, Certified Financial Planner, Joshua Winterswyk, Certified Financial Planner. Guys, how’s it feel to be back?

Matthew Theal: It’s nice to be back, Brent. Glad we’re in the studio today with the better sound quality. I know we got some complaints from our loyal listeners about sound quality, so it’s nice that we’re getting the good stuff back.

Brent Pasqua: Absolutely.

Joshua Winterswyk: It feels like we’re doing a podcast again with the mics and we’re back in the studio. So excited. It’s nice to be able to see you guys and actually talk instead of looking at you through the camera.

Matthew Theal: Zoom fatigue.

Brent Pasqua: Yeah. So how’s the golf game? We haven’t talked about that in a while.

Matthew Theal: Well Brent, as you know, I have a young baby at home, so my golf game’s been pretty nonexistent since August but I’m planning to get back on the course, maybe coming up in November.

Brent Pasqua: So how long did your golf career just last?

Matthew Theal: Lasted from May to August.

Brent Pasqua: So you’ve played for four months and I’m sure you invested a lot of money into some new golf stuff?

Matthew Theal: Well, here’s the thing. My plan was always to take it easier in the fall, winter and then start back up at really hardcore after the holiday season.

Brent Pasqua: I see.

Matthew Theal: Just my golf group just really got hit by the bug and they’re playing, two, three times a week, actually.

Joshua Winterswyk: That’s not true, it’s once a week. But we understand, I mean, you had your baby. We’re holding your spot for you in the group and yes, we are still playing about once a week. We did get the bug pretty bad but it’s going well, everyone’s getting better and which is fun to watch. And it makes it a lot more fun when you’re getting a little bit better. I mean, maybe a little bit more frustrating because you’re always striving to be better at golf but been a lot of fun. It’s been a really nice getaway from quarantining and COVID and to be outside. And so I’ve just really, really enjoyed it. And Matt, I’m looking forward to getting you back on that course when you’re ready.

Brent Pasqua: Yeah. I think he’s going to be a little jealous with you guys making progress in your game and then he’s got to start it all right back up again.

Joshua Winterswyk: I know it’s going to feel nice though.

Brent Pasqua: Yeah. All right. Well, let’s get into some of the hot take headlines. Apple just released a new iPhone. It’s a 5G cellular, has their new A14 bionic chip, which means that processing is actually a lot faster, increased camera features AR scanner for night mode. Is this worth going out and getting? Their release of a new phone every year, is this the big one we’ve been waiting for?

Matthew Theal: Maybe for certain people. I mean, I haven’t upgraded my phone in two years, so I’m definitely going to get one. I’m going to order the Max Pro Plus, as soon as you’re allowed to do that. That’s the top of the line model with all the features you mentioned. I believe if you’re getting a phone, you should just get all the bells and whistles. The actual complex thing right now is how to buy the iPhone. They really changed up the process. I was looking at the website and it’s a little different then it’s been in the past.

Brent Pasqua: What’s your thoughts, Josh?

Joshua Winterswyk: I was really excited for this year’s iPhone to come out because again, I haven’t gotten a phone either in about two years. So I was really interested in the launch and I think there is a lot of really cool features. Like you said, just the faster processing, they have better camera. And one really cool thing that I also liked is they added more features around wireless charging and accessories to go with wireless charging, so I really liked that, too. So excited, I’m with you, Matt. I think that if I’m going to get new tech, I want the newest and best tech. So I’ll most likely be getting an iPhone when these launch and that 12 Pro, what is it, Matt?

Matthew Theal: I’d call it the 12 Max Pro Plus.

Joshua Winterswyk: Okay. 12 Max Pro Plus. Is that a mouthful? But I agree with him on getting the newest tech.

Brent Pasqua: I guess my only question about that though, is 5G really what it’s been the hyped about and around? Is that going to make it that much better?

Matthew Theal: From what I’ve read, it sounds like it’s going to be a bust but I mean, who knows? It’s a new technology. It’s the first time it’s been in the iPhone, so I can’t say for myself, I’ve never tried it. You’d probably have to be in a major city like LA, New York, Boston, Seattle, San Francisco, to experience 5G. It’s probably not going to work out here in the suburbs but I could be wrong.

Joshua Winterswyk: But I feel like even when 4G was launched and now all of the different upgrades to cellular, the same conversations were being had. Like, is it going to work? It’s not everywhere yet, you have to be in the big cities and then it ends up catching up. So just excited to see if it does work.

Brent Pasqua: Real quick. Can we go over the options to buy it?

Matthew Theal: Yeah.

Brent Pasqua: All right.

Matthew Theal: So they really changed the website on It’s actually quite confusing. So I believe there’s four different options. You can either buy it from your carrier and finance it that way. That’s probably my least desirable route. You could pay cash for it, right? So you can just buy the phone, like you would anything else-

Brent Pasqua: Through the Apple site?

Matthew Theal: Yeah, through the Apple site. They have a new option where you could finance it with Apple card. So you open an Apple credit card and you can finance it that way. Or you could do the upgrade loan through Citizens Bank.

Joshua Winterswyk: Citizens was the way that they upgraded the last couple years, right? They use Citizens loan?

Matthew Theal: Yeah. But you have to click through a couple of times to get to Citizens. It seems like they’re pushing you towards creating an Apple card and financing it that way.

Joshua Winterswyk: Yeah. That’s a hard run on your credit and a new card you have to have. So that’s going to be a decision for sure.

Brent Pasqua: And if they have a launch date, where you can’t buy it to a certain date, I’m assuming you would have to get that approved before that time. Because they’re opening up for sales at a certain time, like 5:00 AM on November or whatever and then all of a sudden you’re going to have to go in there and have that already done?

Matthew Theal: I’m not sure. I’m sure that it clicks through on the phone pretty fast or else they wouldn’t do it. But just to people listening, be careful of that option like Josh was saying. Probably Citizens or paying outright for the phone is your best option.

Brent Pasqua: It makes sense. Moving on, rental prices are down 20% in San Francisco this year. It’s the largest year over year drop the city has ever seen. Rents are down 24.2% compared to last September. What’s going on in San Francisco? Is this across all major cities? What’s your thoughts, Josh?

Joshua Winterswyk: Well, San Francisco because of the COVID crisis is experiencing just like we are, work from home atmosphere, environment. So, with the work from home orders in San Francisco, with the fires, with everything that’s going on, you’re seeing … Just like in LA, too, but people getting out of the city. If you work from Google and you’re able to work somewhere else and it’s cheaper, why wouldn’t you? So they’re seeing just a decrease in demand in rent driving the prices down because they need to still rent these properties in San Francisco. So it makes sense for now, as people are still working from home but how long that’ll last when the COVID crisis is over, people have to go back to the office. Will they just skyrocket back up, is probably my biggest question.

Matthew Theal: Yeah. Josh hit the nail on the head, people are migrating out of the cities. For me, I’m very nervous for landlords right now. No one’s really talking about it but I mean, I live in Los Angeles and most of the buildings I see that are next to my building have a lot of vacancies on top of my building. Where we have probably about 40% of the apartments in my building are available. The building next to us, the whole far side of the building is completely empty, so four or five units on an eight unit building. I’m very nervous for landlords going into 2021. I think they’re going to be in for a world of pain.

Brent Pasqua: Yeah. And from my understanding also, people that we’re living in the city, especially in San Francisco, they wanted that nature feel and they aren’t getting that in the city. And if they have an option to go outside the city and live because there’s a lot of beautiful areas obviously near San Francisco, you can get more of that natural sense and a better place to live, I guess. It does make sense that people are moving out of the cities.

Matthew Theal: I would definitely be considering it, if I lived there. I mean, just how high rents were.

Brent Pasqua: Yeah.

Matthew Theal: In San Francisco.

Brent Pasqua: Right. With everything shut down in the city, what does a city that’s shut down have to offer?

Matthew Theal: Exactly, exactly.

Brent Pasqua: All right. Well, let’s get into the retirement planning corner. We’re getting so many questions about the election. So we really just wanted to spend some time and give you our opinion. I mean, these are questions that our clients are asking that we’re talking about during reviews, this an emotional election, we’re already seeing record turnouts in the early polls, but we want to talk about how this might impact the market and just really what we’re feeling as we get into this very important time. The first thing that comes to mind when I think about this though is, if Biden does win, will the stock market actually crash? What’s your thoughts, Matt?

Matthew Theal: I mean, maybe for a day or two but long term, no. So we’ve looked at past data which was showing this before. There’s actually never been a Democrat president with negative stock returns. Democrats are great for stocks, it’s just this recent new thing, where Fox News, CNN, MSNBC, try and politicize elections and make it about the stock market where they try and create a fear. Like, “Oh, this president’s going to be bad for your portfolio.” Or, “You know, this president’s going to be bad for your bond portfolio,” whatever. No, it’s not going to crash.

Brent Pasqua: Yeah. And I think one of the things that, an area that we’re coming from is that this is that we’re not coming from a political sense. We don’t have a political agenda here or opinion about who should be the next president. We’re talking about from just strictly a market standpoint of what we think potentially and what historically has happened in the market. What are your thoughts? Do you think Josh, that the market would decline?

Joshua Winterswyk: I’m with Matt. I mean, short-term, there’s going to be volatility no matter even if there wasn’t an election. I mean, there’s so many variables that affect the market. This is just one variable that affects the market. So again, short-term, yes. But to say, even to look at the data, like Matt said, we haven’t seen a Republican that had negative returns or a Democrat that had negative returns. It’s only been two Republicans, too. So the data doesn’t really even suggest that over a election term, that we’re going to see negative returns from Biden or Trump or it’s just not there. So I think that this is just one variable and making sure that you do have a plan. I know we always lean on that but your investment plan shouldn’t be built around short-term variables.

Brent Pasqua: What are some of the positives, Matt, if Biden wins?

Matthew Theal: I’ll just go back to the past data and I’ll just say that Democrats have been extremely friendly to the stock market. President Obama during his term, everyone thinks Obama was an awful president for business but plus 181%, if you just invested in the S&P 500 from the day Obama was elected to the day he left office. President Clinton, plus 209% from the day he was elected till the day he left office. And then going back to the late seventies, I know a lot of people didn’t like him as a president but in his short term, Jimmy Carter had 30% returns. Those are the last three Democrat presidents. So they have been good for the stock market.

Brent Pasqua: Now, I guess you could make the argument that Obama’s returns were so good because he inherited a situation that was so bad. The only place to go was up, in that period.

Matthew Theal: Well, that’s not what people were saying at the time.

Brent Pasqua: Right. Now, if we look at market returns during election years, the market has only been down in an election year, four times. 1928, 1932, 2000, 2008. So basically, the Great Depression, World War II, crash and the housing crisis. Four times since 1928, the market has been down in an election year. Just, it makes you kind of have a sense of … Are most people just overreacting that in an election year, they think the market’s just going to crash?

Joshua Winterswyk: Yeah. I got this quote from Matt, but both parties strategy is to forecast the end of the world, if the other party wins. I think it summarizes it well, right? Because we’re reading off the data, we’re showing these really great rates of return but then the media and the opposite parties are saying that it’s doom and gloom and the market’s going to crash.

Brent Pasqua: Yeah. I guess my final question regarding this part of it is, if somebody is concerned about Biden winning the election, should they get out of the market?

Matthew Theal: No short answer but can I go back and hit on your recession one?

Brent Pasqua: Yes.

Matthew Theal: So, what I would say to people is, if the market is going to go down this year and into next year, it’s not going to be because of who wins the presidential election. The stock market won’t care. It’s going to be because we are in a recession because of the Coronavirus and there’s going to be lingering effects like I was mentioning, about landlords and large businesses might start doing layoffs. But what was your second question? Biden, right?

Brent Pasqua: Yeah.

Matthew Theal: If Biden wins?

Brent Pasqua: Yep. Should people get out of the market, if they are fearing that Biden’s going to win?

Matthew Theal: No. I mean like Josh said, have a plan. I mean, your plan can’t be, “I’m going to sell my stocks and buy new ones.” That’s an awful plan.

Joshua Winterswyk: And so, every four years when there’s an election year, we’re always going to sell our stocks. And then again, when you get back in, I know we always talk about that but we’re just keeping it simple with election year. So if your plan is to sell every election year, the data suggests that you’re going to miss out on a lot of rates of return because the data shows that in election years and years after the market’s positive.

Brent Pasqua: Yeah. And this is such an emotional election, I feel probably for the next many election, it’s probably going to be emotional, I think, based on just what we’re dealing with but it does feel a little extreme this time. It does. So let’s talk about if Trump wins, if Trump does win, should people react differently if Trump wins on how they approach the market?

Matthew Theal: No. I mean, steady as she goes. I mean, Trump’s been a good president, very business friendly, great tax laws, been good for the stock market. I know some people don’t agree with some of his other policies but I mean, who wouldn’t want to pay less taxes? I mean, are there really people out there saying, “Hey, I want to pay more taxes?”

Brent Pasqua: Yeah. I mean, one of the questions we’re also getting is, get out of the market if Trump wins and I want to jump back in the market and get right back in. I mean, if Trump wins, is that a reason to get cash ready and dump it in the market?

Joshua Winterswyk: Again, it just goes back to having a set plan. I mean, if your plan was to get money in the market or you have that money to invest, you want to be an investor and that money’s tagged for the long-term, then why should it matter which president? If your strategy is to be investing for your future or for the long term. And a lot of times, I mean, what we see when we look in the past, we also see that the market’s priced in a lot of these changes already. The market’s so forward-looking and I’m not saying that it completely priced in who’s president yet. But some of these changes that present themselves, depending on which president is going to get elected could already be reflected in the stock prices.

Brent Pasqua: Right. And I could sit here and probably make an argument that if Trump wins, the administration has struggled to really contain the virus to this point. And if the virus does have this much impact on business and the administration has to this point, not done that well to contain it, that the market could be in a vulnerable position if Trump does win. Just the same as you can make an argument about Biden winning.

Matthew Theal: Yeah, exactly. But you’re going to the point more of the virus is going to cause the recession that’s going to cause a stock market drop, not really who the president is.

Brent Pasqua: Yeah. Except for just the difference is that possibly under a new administration that can contain the virus slightly better. Okay. So let’s get into the next one. I don’t want my taxes to increase, how much tax will I pay if Biden wins? There’s been some proposals already about what some of the taxable changes would be under the new … If Biden were to win, you would see possibly a rate increase from what Trump’s top tax rate of 37% would be to 39. You see, possibly that corporate alternative minimum tax would increase the corporate tax rate. Individuals with $400,000, they would potentially pay a higher tax rate. Also, capital gains tax would be higher. You’d see some potentially state tax thresholds would then lower. You’re seeing a lot of proposals here. Do we think that that really would have a major impact on the market?

Matthew Theal: I mean, it could in the short term. But again, not in the long term. The one thing that’s interesting about Biden’s tax program is, it’s really just for individuals who are high earners and high earners meaning, over 400,000. To be impacted by his tax policy, you probably really need to be making close to 450 or more. So if you and your wife or your significant other are making more than 450,000, then yeah, you might see a slight tick up in your taxes but it’s marginal. We’re talking two to 3%, it’s not end of the world.

Brent Pasqua: I guess the biggest question that I have is, with the economy being in such a vulnerable position, how could he really make these changes to the tax rules that quickly? Can this really happen next year?

Matthew Theal: No. I mean, unless there’s a complete blue wave and they want to kill the economy. But again, these politicians are all talk before the election, right? They’re all McDonald’s presidents. I’m going to give free this, free that. And then it comes and they realize they’re only in office for four years and they have to get re-elected. So they have to do what politicians have done before.

Brent Pasqua: Now. Do you think Josh, that if he does raise the capital gains tax that will force people to sell, if he’s elected at the end of this year to fire sale the market to sell their stock positions that may have large gains at a potentially lower capital gains tax rate versus people just holding off?

Joshua Winterswyk: I think it will promote people to panic sell. Is that a recommendation or is that my recommendation? No. I mean, we have to analyze to see if even first, if he does get elected and again, dig deeper into that proposal. But again, making decisions for even a short or a four-year time period just isn’t typically the right way to take it. I mean, we want to be really analyzing these decisions on selling stocks or realizing capital gains but it’s definitely something when tax rates change, to look at your capital gains and when you should be selling. I mean, that’s smart to do. And I do think that it will promote people to do that but I don’t know if that’s necessary only the right thing to do.

Brent Pasqua: I think what my advice to clients would be something that you’ve already said, I think both of you already said, is to have a plan. Once the election does happen, you’re going to know a little bit more and then you can make some changes to your plan if it’s necessary but don’t be reactive heading into it. I think that just leads to bigger mistakes.

Joshua Winterswyk: In practice, what we already do and can control, which is like a tax loss harvesting strategy. I mean, if you’re already every year tax loss harvesting your capital gains in your investments, let’s do it again this year, right? That’s our strategy, let’s stick to it. It’s proven to help reduce taxes and increase return. So I think, just sticking to that plan and looking at it, not so much from a one variable stance or a short-term stance but looking at that long-term plan for you and your family.

Brent Pasqua: Yeah. And I think, right now is a good time to potentially be looking at rebalancing. I think if you’re doing anything, rebalancing may be the thing that you’re discussing with your advisor, having a conversation with your cell phone but to get it out and get in, I don’t think that that’s going to make sense. Matt, if Trump does stay in this, do you think there’s going to be changes to what he’s changed with the tax code?

Matthew Theal: No, I don’t think so. I know he’s floated some ideas about friendly capital gains loss, which actually would be really cool. His idea makes a lot of sense. A lot of Trump’s policies make a lot of sense, his delivery isn’t that great of these set policies but all right, so you buy a stock, right? And your basis is a hundred bucks and you bought it in 1992. Since then, there’s been a lot of inflation, right? That stock now might be worth $500. Well, if you bought it for a hundred and it’s worth 500, you owe $400 in capital gains tax, a difference between your basis and the cost you sell it at. Trump floated a plan that he would inflation adjust your basis. That’s a tremendous idea, that would help a lot of families save a lot of money on their capital gains tax. So maybe something like that but no, I don’t see him changing his tax laws. I know they go away, I think, in 2025. But the Republicans will most likely push to get that extended.

Brent Pasqua: One of the other big questions we’re starting to get from clients and we have for some time is, if Biden does win, how does this change my retirement outlook. Josh, does this make or have any changes to someone’s retirement potential?

Joshua Winterswyk: I, again, I don’t think so. I don’t think that the change of president should be adjusting your plan that drastically. I think, making sure that you are rebalancing or updating your plan to focus on those things you can control that do change. But I don’t think that a change in president and especially this one variable, should be taking you completely off track of your long-term goals.

Brent Pasqua: I guess if you’re listening to the show and you’re interested enough to know that potentially the election could impact you in some capacity, I think obviously, you should probably be working with an advisor. Spend a lot of time within your own financial plan getting a lot of those details because it obviously is a changing time but that doesn’t mean it has to change what you have going on. But you have to know what you’re doing, I guess, within your financial plan. Would you agree, Matt?

Matthew Theal: Yeah. If you have anxiety about an election that happens every four years, then really, you’re having anxiety because you don’t have a good plan. So reach out, get that help, get that plan and then you could be in control of your retirement. And so then, let your retirement control you.

Brent Pasqua: Are you telling clients to buy, hold, sell, get money ready? What are you telling your clients?

Matthew Theal: I’m telling my clients to do absolutely nothing. That if they have some spare cash and the market does drop after the election that we’ll be investing that money in the market because historically, it’s always been good to buy when stocks are dropping.

Brent Pasqua: Yeah, I think that’s great advice.

Joshua Winterswyk: I think that and I’m believing in this myself but also relaying as a recommendation is, right now in dollar cost averaging, strategy’s great, in my opinion. I mean, looking at if you do have that extra excess money laying around or on the sidelines that is in cash and you want to get it invested but you’re nervous about the election, let’s just commit to getting it in over a certain time period, not a strict frequency. So if it’s the day after the election, we’re going to put some money in and it’s a the month later and then the month after that and just sticking to that, just like you do with your 401k plans when you contribute into them. I think that, that is going to keep you disciplined to getting that money in. And you’re probably going to get some good stock purchases within there, as well.

Brent Pasqua: Yeah. Your best strategy in my opinion, is to dollar cost average, set up reoccurring deposits into an account, whether it’s in your 401k. But additionally, even outside your 401k, if you can contribute to an IRA or an after-tax account, just have auto deposits going. Even if it’s $25 a month, a week, it doesn’t matter how those auto deposits in. So it’s auto invested and then you’re getting different share prices. So if the market does go down, if the election goes a certain way or not, then you’re still buying stocks at different prices. I mean, you’re not jumping in, jumping out, which we know is a proven way to fail, right?

Joshua Winterswyk: Yep, definitely.

Brent Pasqua: Any final thoughts on this major topic, as you know, you’ve had these conversations with both of your clients?

Matthew Theal: Just don’t panic. Your life won’t change that much, regardless of who the president was. People were panicking about Trump in 16, 17 and 18 and 19 were great. 20’s been a poor year. It’s just really because of the coronavirus and the recession. Biden wins, the light’s going to go on. Don’t get too wrapped up in it.

Brent Pasqua: Yeah.

Joshua Winterswyk: And I think that with Trump, we know what that looks like, right? Him being president and what that would look like even after this pandemic. And I think that just to go back to what we continue to talk about, having a plan and continuing to talk about what is concerning you and growing some knowledge in those areas? Because I think that will help with reducing the fear through these election periods and which is just one variable, ton of variables within your finances and in your life and within your retirement. So continue to analyzing them and be mindful of them and continue to learn.

Matthew Theal: Yeah, I agree.

Brent Pasqua: My recommendation would be to have a plan, talk to your advisor, rebalance if necessary and really set up some auto deposits, so it takes a little bit of the stress of getting in and getting out. You don’t have to do that. Just keep buying on a regular basis and the importance of having a plan and having somebody that you can emotionally bounce ideas off, who’s not as emotional about your own money as you are. I think that provides a lot of benefit. From our standpoint, we see it a lot different than the client is. We’re not as emotional about it because we’ve just studied it so much, our mentality’s a little bit different. So make sure you’re working with your advisor to help you on these areas. So let’s get into the final part of the show. As I always say, it’s one of my favorites. Last time, Matt, I remember you gave … I think the RPA recommend for you was having a baby for people that who are thinking about to have it. What’s our RPA recommend today?

Matthew Theal: Hopefully you have eight months left till you’re … I’m just kidding. So I did buy something this past month, it started to get a little chilly. I’m out here in Southern California, you know, fall. So, 70 degrees, 50’s in the morning.

Joshua Winterswyk: Anyone listening on the East Coast is laughing.

Matthew Theal: Yeah, they are. So for the home office, I got some UGG slippers. There are $80, bought them on the Internet, arrived this weekend and they’re great. Really enjoying working with them this week.

Joshua Winterswyk: Nice. I wanted to go back to a recommendation I think you gave a while ago but finally logged into Apple TV and watched Ted Lasso. I finished that season. I love soccer and it’s a story about a American football coach goes to England to coach an English soccer team. And just a really, feel good show. So if you’re looking for like a really funny feel good show, Ted Lasso on Apple TV. I think Matt gave that recommendation. If he didn’t, I am and I’m just kind of co-signing him on it. It was really good and I finished it last week.

Matthew Theal: By far, the best show of 2020. It’s like the show 2020 needed. I think I saw that in a quote somewhere, what a show.

Joshua Winterswyk: And it was just like every episode was like, you leave smiling. They have you smiling and it’s really feel good. And even if you’re not a huge sports fan, I think it has something for everybody and just a really good show. So thanks for that recommendation from you. And I’m, co-signing that recommendation.

Brent Pasqua: Yeah. And I don’t know if you had given this recommendation a couple of shows ago and if you have, I’m going to piggyback on that. But mortgage rates right now are at some of the lowest points they’ve ever been at. If you have a mortgage that you did two, three, five, six, seven years ago or even longer and you know that your rates above three, I would definitely highly consider looking into possibly refinancing. At least running the numbers, looking at what options you have to refi because with the as low as the rates are, I can’t imagine in the future, you would ever refinance again. They just seem so low right now.

Joshua Winterswyk: Yeah. They are. That’s a great recommendation and a great time to be looking into refinancing. And they’ve just stayed so low. I mean, if you haven’t jumped on it from the beginning, now’s still a really good time to look into that.

Brent Pasqua: Yeah. Every review that I’m doing with my clients who are looking at this, either looking at the numbers, having that discussion because right now it seems like better than ever is a good time to do it.

Joshua Winterswyk: Yeah.

Brent Pasqua: Even if you did it two, three years ago, go do it again.

Joshua Winterswyk: Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I have a client that did theirs in July and they’re already looking at redoing it again because rates have come down so much just over the last three or four months.

Brent Pasqua: Yeah. It makes sense.

Joshua Winterswyk: Yeah.

Brent Pasqua: But do your homework, calculate the savings, calculate the breakeven points, make sure it makes sense before you do it.

Joshua Winterswyk: And also just make sure you’re going to be staying in that home, you know?

Brent Pasqua: Yeah.

Joshua Winterswyk: It does take up anywhere from four to seven years to break even. But if you are great time and great recommendation, yeah.

Brent Pasqua: And watch the costs on closing, I think that would be important, too.

Joshua Winterswyk: Absolutely, yep.

Brent Pasqua: All right. So as advisors, we love really helping people, that’s why we do it. If you’d like to schedule an appointment with any of us, please go to RPA Wealth. And on there, you can just schedule a complimentary consultation with us. Can also download our eBooks on our website. If you’d like the show notes, please go to our retirement plan, We thank you as always for listening. And if you have time, feel free to go rate us on wherever you’re getting your podcasts. Thanks for listening.

Joshua Winterswyk: Thank you.

Matthew Theal: Thank you.

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