The X’s & O’s

As we kick off 2021, Brent, Matthew, and Joshua take a look back on the previous year and discuss some key investment lessons that 2020 brought to their attention. The guys will discuss the importance of sticking to an investment philosophy, risk tolerance, being flexible with your investments, and much more.

The Hosts:

Brent Pasqua, Matthew Theal and Joshua Winterswyk



Brent Pasqua: Welcome to the Retirement Plan Playbook, I’m Brent Pasqua, excited to be back with you in this new year. But the year of 2020 will be one that probably we’ll never forget through the global pandemic, civil unrest, economic downfall, and all of us really being quarantined for so many months it’s led us to really some new areas of thought. And for investors, as we reflect on the past year, it’s critical we revisit some lessons learned to better ourselves moving forward. And I’m really excited about going through some of the investment lessons that we’ve learned during 2020. And so it’s been a much anticipated topic that we’ve been talking about and thinking about, but I’m Brent Pasqua I’m founder of RPA Wealth Management. I’m here with Matthew Theal, producer of Retirement Plan Playbook and certified financial planner. Also here as always with Joshua Winterswyk certified financial planner. But guys before we jump into these investment lessons, how was your holiday season?

Matthew Theal: Mine was all right. I have the new baby at home so we did some… Had some new Christmas traditions and saw our families. It was nice holiday season, very relaxing after we moved into the house and everything so great time.

Joshua Winterswyk: It was different. Tried to make the most of it but it was a very different holiday with family separated, and doing more drive-bys, and trying to stay safe. But it was good, we tried to spread that holiday spirit and enjoy that time but a very different year.

Brent Pasqua: Yeah. It felt like you couldn’t really get into the same holiday spirit as you normally would. And there’s just so much joy during that time, but it was definitely different this year.

Joshua Winterswyk: Absolutely.

Newspaper Boy: Extra. Extra. Read all about it.

Announcer: Let’s hear the latest you the latest hot takes on some recent news items.

Brent Pasqua: So let’s get into the news. We have some hot take headlines for you all today. Congress finally passed a Coronavirus Stimulus 2.0, really came out in a 5,000 page bill. I’m not sure why they can’t keep things in short form, I don’t understand why they have to make it so long. But there’s a $600 stimulus check extension to unemployment benefits and small business get enhanced employee retention credit and Paycheck Protection Program too. What are your thoughts on this?

Matthew Theal: It should have came a little sooner, right? We knew a lot of people are struggling right now, especially in certain industries throughout the economy. And honestly, probably wish it was a little bit more. I know they want to give people more money in the checks and some of the things we’ve seen in the past week with elections probably leads to more money coming down in Q1 of 2021. Long time coming glad they got something done. I’m really glad the president didn’t cancel it. I’m not quite sure what that was about, but there’s just so many Americans that are hurting right now that $600 is going to go a long way.

Brent Pasqua: Yeah, I guess that my next question is really how far does $600 really get people? Is that really even helping them move the needle?

Joshua Winterswyk: I feel like that was the feeling from a lot of people that it took so long and then the final outcome was $600. If this would have happened maybe four or five months ago when they first started talking about the second stimulus, okay, you have some more time to maybe potentially roll out another, but I think that’s a lot of the thought is took them so long to just pass 600 bucks.

Brent Pasqua: Yeah. That’s been my thought too. But if you start to also look at I saw some statistics that savings accounts are at all time highs, credit card debts are at really some of the lowest points they’ve ever been. Some of the stimulus has to be working.

Joshua Winterswyk: Yeah. I think a little bit. And then I think what’s overshadowed too is just the extension in the addition to the unemployment benefits, it’s not just about the stimulus, so the people who have lost their jobs do you have another aid besides just a stimulus check.

Matthew Theal: Yeah, I agree.

Brent Pasqua: So we had another big start to the year. The results from the Georgia election are in. Democrat Jon Ossoff defeated David Perdue, and Democrat Raphael Warnock defeated Kelly Loffler. The Democrats twin win will reshape balance of power in Washington. They’ll now have an even 50/50 split with really Kamala Harris being the tiebreaker. Democrats will control the committees and the legislations and nominations when they’re brought to the floor. How much does this now really paved the way to potential tax changes and other agenda elements that might impact us next year and some of those we’ve talked about in previous podcasts?

Joshua Winterswyk: Yeah. I think that it makes it a little easier for them. It was going to be extremely difficult for them to pass a lot of their legislation with a Republican controlled Senate. But now that there is a split and Kamala Harris has the tiebreaker, this makes it a little easier for the Democrats to potentially change a lot with our government. But also it is a slim margin, right? It is a 50/50 split with just a tie breaker. So everything that they want to pass has to have a complete backing by the democratic party not one can potentially disagree.

Matthew Theal: Hopefully they could get infrastructure spending going. This is a chance for the Democrats to really get something done, what a fail by the Republicans. They will look back at this stretch in this Georgia election, and in the history books. And just really talk about how the party failed on multiple policy fronts to get to where they are, where the Democrats can control everything. But hopefully the Democrats come in and get some policies passed that it’ll actually be good for the American people without a lot of fighting and bickering going on because I think 95% of all Americans are truly sick of what we see out of our elected officials.

Joshua Winterswyk: And the thought of a blue wave was a far thought going into the election. The probability of it was pretty slim. And then now we’re faced with having that blue wave.

Matthew Theal: Yeah. It’s just a lot of missteps by the Republican party got us here.

Brent Pasqua: But I also think that like what Josh said is it’s still a thin margin. You can’t just assume that because you have that blue wave that everything is just going to get passed through. It still has to go through a lot of hurdles.

Joshua Winterswyk: And that’s the same with the house, the margins then.

Brent Pasqua: So for anybody who’s panicking thinking that we’re heading this country into one direction. I think that’s still based on the way that the house and the Senate is, I don’t think not everything’s getting passed through here the way the margins are.

Matthew Theal: No, no, no. Not at all. I mean, I think the tax stuff that people are scared about it’s way overblown. That’s not going to happen, nobody wants to raise taxes.

Joshua Winterswyk: And especially through the time of a pandemic. We’re passing stimulus checks and extensions of unemployment benefits and aid for small businesses, but there’s going to be this huge tax increase. I just don’t think that that’s likely, right away, at least.

Brent Pasqua: And the margins I think like you said are too thin within the legislation to be able to say that it’s just going to be able to pass right through.

Matthew Theal: Right.

Announcer: Now that we warmed up with some hot takes, let’s go to the Retirement Planning Corner and see what’s on the docket for today.

Brent Pasqua: All right. Let’s get into the next section of the show, The Retirement Planning Corner. Today, we want to talk about really what investment lessons we learned in 2020. Maybe we can start talking about some investment lessons that have always been important, but they’ve really just been reiterated and reaffirmed going in as a result of what we saw last year. First one is really to have an investment philosophy. Tell us a little bit about that, Matt.

Matthew Theal: Yeah. First I’m going to hit on just how great of a year 2020 was if you were a disciplined investor and you followed your plan, you had a career year. This is the year that they write about in textbooks. I don’t want to say it was an easy year to make money, but it was just that kind of year that makes your career. And I think the three of us and a lot of our clients were very successful because we did have an investment philosophy.

Matthew Theal: So what an investment philosophy is, is it’s a set of beliefs about how you should invest your money. Are you passive? Are you active? Are you doing IPOs and SPACs, are you doing blue chips? What is it? What’s your strategy? And it takes a long time to come up with your own investment philosophy. It took me 15 years to realize that I even needed one, and I’ve spent the last three to five years just crafting it to my own personality essentially. But it’s so important to have and if you had an investment philosophy as your first pillar of your investment plan, in March you weren’t freaking out. You were sitting there and being like, “Well, what’s my plan today. Okay, let’s start buying then.” And there’s some great, great deals.

Brent Pasqua: How does the novice investor really develop Joshua an investment philosophy or stick with one if they’re controlling it themselves?

Joshua Winterswyk: If they are controlling it themselves. I think educating yourself. There’s tons of research now through online and books and educational courses, it’s going to take some time to develop like Matt said an investment philosophy. And start simple, start with simple investment philosophies. Passive right now is really easy to invest in and it’s cheap looking into a passive philosophy. But one thing that I always think of about when we’re talking about philosophy too, is ask yourself what is my investment philosophy? If you can’t easily answer that question, you don’t have one. And so that’s just that first step is am I always changing the way I’m investing? If I can’t answer that question then maybe I do need to sit down, write down my goals and really educate myself on the philosophy that I’m going to stick to and believe in.

Brent Pasqua: Yeah. And I think if you’re thinking I don’t want to spend the time to develop my own an investment philosophy. I don’t want to do the research or spend the 15 to 20 years of making mistakes to get to the end point where you really have a good investment philosophy, hire an advisor, right?

Joshua Winterswyk: Yeah. That’s going to be the easiest way is hire an advisor to help you. And even if it’s just hiring an advisor to teach you an investment philosophy or go through your options as an investment philosophy, but they can definitely help because they’re the experts.

Brent Pasqua: At the end of the day you find an advisor that really matches up with your philosophies in life and goals and investment strategies.

Joshua Winterswyk: Absolutely.

Brent Pasqua: The second one that we have is make sure your investment plan matches your risk tolerance. Josh what does this mean?

Joshua Winterswyk: So I just look back to March when the market went down, let’s say 31%, depending on the index you were looking at, how did that make you feel? When you saw your account values go down and if it was 31%, or if it was only 20% or 5% that is really the test of your risk tolerance. This year really tested the tolerance that you can take within your investments. And so if you were unable and it forced you to make changes or it drove fear and uncertainty, you weren’t confident this year with your investment plan or your investment accounts, maybe your tolerance isn’t in line with your goals and your plans. That’s really what it means to me and this year was a really, really good test of that.

Matthew Theal: Yeah, absolutely. I think you need to look at yourself and it goes back to the philosophy, look at your personality. Are you the type of person who is willing to forego your paycheck to start a business? If the answer is “No. I like getting a steady paycheck once a week or every other week.” Then you’re probably actually more on the conservative side. If you’re the type of person who’s out there, you’re an entrepreneur, you have that spirit, you have no problem creating your own paycheck essentially, then maybe you’re a little bit more aggressive with the market. But most people are actually… should probably go about it pretty conservative and they end up going about it pretty aggressively.

Brent Pasqua: Yeah. When I think about risk tolerance though my head always takes me towards the financial plan and goals a person has. Because there’s a risk tolerance exercise that actually works. So when the market went down in March and if you’re starting to panic, you could really assess, do I have too much risk in my portfolio? The question is, really, do you have your eyes set on the long-term and short-term goals that you’ve established for yourself. And if you’re getting so emotionally taken by what’s happening in the news, in the market and your risk in your portfolio, maybe you should be a little bit more focused on your plan and establishing those goals in a little bit more fine tuned detail. So that doesn’t really interfere with any mistakes that you make or any decisions that you have.

Matthew Theal: Yeah, totally.

Brent Pasqua: All right. So let’s get onto the next one. Don’t try and time the market. What does this actually mean?

Matthew Theal: So I’ll take this one. What it means is you’re never going to predict what the stock market’s going to do. It’s essentially a 50/50 coin flip on a daily basis. Let me just give you an example from last year. As the pandemic was worsening the stock markets started going up. Why? Nobody really knows, but the fact is that people saw good bargains among companies and started purchasing them. Let’s look at just this past week, there was an attempt on the Capitol of the United States and people entered it. You would think the stock market would go down it didn’t, it went up, you just can’t predict it what’s going to happen. And who knows, maybe, we’ll be sitting here in six months and the stock market will be down and the world will be back to normal. And everyone will be traveling and going to concerts, going to parties, we won’t be wearing masks anymore, but maybe the market will be down for some other risks that we just don’t foresee right now.

Brent Pasqua: Statistical data Josh suggests that timing the market doesn’t work and it’s really a low probability event. Why do so many people try to do it?

Joshua Winterswyk: I hate to say it, but a lot of it is driven by you could say it’s fear or even greed of missing out. The fear of missing out, the fear of, “I want more.” And not being okay with the boring, which is just buying into the market. And a lot of things that I see, especially just from questions I get and from friends and even just family of, “Hey, let’s buy Amazon. It’s done already well this year.” And by the time all of that information is processed, it’s already reflected in the stock price and we’re ready behind the game. So it’s trying to pick the stock, trying to forecast, trying to outguess the market when the market’s just so much faster at processing that information than you. So you’re just already behind that eight ball of information and that leads to lower expected returns as we’ve seen in the research like you show. So I think it’s a lot of variables, but I think those are the main ones.

Brent Pasqua: Yeah. I agree. I think we’ve all made mistake to try to watch a stock and think, “Okay, it’s going to go a little bit lower, just continually watch it go up.” And then if you want to get in now you’re paying 10, 15% more than what it was when you started wanting to buy it.

Matthew Theal: Here’s something too that’s a little crazy and this is going to sound a little counterintuitive to most people. But it actually becomes easier to time the market as it goes lower than as it goes higher. Meaning we’re dealing with a February, March sell off or even a sell off like we saw in 2008, 2009. The lower it goes, that’s when you should start your dollar cost averaging strategy. And then eventually you’re going to hit that bottom and it’s going to be a stair-step right to the top. So counterintuitive to what most people think, but it’s actually easier to time the market I believe on the way down than on the way up.

Brent Pasqua: But what’s happening on the way down to people that prevents them from really jumping in.

Joshua Winterswyk: Yeah. They’re getting scared or nervous, it’s fear-driven. But it is practicing good philosophy though too, what you’re explaining. It’s buying low and selling high. A lot of times we don’t… With our houses, we think of it that way with an investment. When your house is low, you don’t really necessarily want to sell it. But when your house is appreciated and the value is going up, we have this thought of selling our house and selling high. But for some reason for a lot of people, that’s just a lot harder with stocks. When the stocks are going low and maybe because they’re priced every day. But as they’re going lower, we get nervous. We don’t want to add money when we know potentially that’s what we should be doing. And then as they’re going higher, that’s when we potentially want to buy them and that’s the wrong time to buy them.

Brent Pasqua: There’s the thought if you’ve been watching a stock and you’re, you’re trying to time the stock and it’s already gone higher, don’t you just get in and then if it drops lower you just put a little bit more in.

Matthew Theal: Yeah, you could do that that actually doesn’t work for me. When I’m actually trading in an individual stock or investing in one, I have a completely different philosophy. Again, this is going to sound counterintuitive but on that side I like to find buy new highs. There’s a lot research around purchasing companies as they’re breaking out and hitting new highs, that that’s much better than buying them when they’re down. Because when there’s down there’s something fundamentally wrong with their business and you could end up with a loser that you’re holding for three, four, 10 years or longer. A great example would be General Electric, their business has been down since 2008, they’ve never really turned it around.

Brent Pasqua: No, they haven’t.

Matthew Theal: When instead you could have bought Apple or Amazon and one of the many new highs it hit.

Brent Pasqua: So if you’re thinking about buying a stock, just stop waiting buy it.

Joshua Winterswyk: And also just open up your time horizon. I think a lot of times we’re thinking about the short term return, “The next six months this company is going to do well. But is that company really going to be doing well in five years or 10 years? Think of it in a little bit bigger of a time horizon I think that can help too.”

Brent Pasqua: Okay. So let’s get onto the next one. Understand your portfolio, explain what having an understanding means and if you aren’t a seasoned investor, what does that really mean to you?

Joshua Winterswyk: Yeah. Investors, when we’re looking at understanding your portfolio, again, this goes in line with philosophy and strategy and really looking at what type of investments and what allocation you have in that portfolio. So stocks, is it bonds, is it alternative investments, and really having an understanding of how all of those assets actually work. And how they work together within the portfolio. So if you have all stocks, how are they working? What’s the expected rate of return. If you have a blend of stocks and bonds, what is the goal of the bonds and how are they working in the portfolio? So in doing your research on that will help you again with philosophy, with risk tolerance and that understanding of how this portfolio is actually going to help you going forward.

Matthew Theal: Yeah. I think it’s really well said by Joshua but you can even put it simpler. If you’re investing in something, you should be able to explain it. If you’re investing in the stock market, you should understand it and be able to explain it to somebody and same with the bond market. I know we try and help our clients by explaining it to them so they understand exactly what they’re investing in. And you can even look… I remember during the Bitcoin craze of 2017, I have clients be like, “Matthew, I want to buy Bitcoin,” or, “I want to buy Ethereum.” Or any of these crazy crypto coins-

Brent Pasqua: Black Coin.

Matthew Theal: … any of them. And I’d say, “Okay, well, that’s great. I could show you how to do that, but could you explain it to me what you’re investing in?” And none of them could do it. So I was like, “Well, if you don’t understand it then we can’t invest in it.”

Brent Pasqua: Yeah. I think it just falls in line to risk tolerance, investment philosophy, having a good understanding of your portfolio. It takes a lot of software and I really have an depth detail, if you want it on your portfolio. And to me, Just hire an advisor unless you’re seasoned enough and want to spend enough time doing it. Let your advisor explain it to you so you can understand it.

Joshua Winterswyk: But I think if you’re starting out and you want to do it yourself, I agree with you Brent totally. But if you are starting out definitely have that understanding first. Like Matt said, “If you can’t explain it, if you don’t understand it, that’s just going to make you feel more comfortable, which will allow you to make better decisions.

Matthew Theal: Yeah, I agree.

Brent Pasqua: All right. Be flexible with your investments, tell us a little bit about this.

Matthew Theal: So when you’re looking at your investment plan, I think in a way you have to be able to slightly deviate course when things aren’t going your way. A good example would be let’s say there’s a sell off, and you have some money set aside in your portfolios maybe it’s down 30% or something for the year. Well, that’s probably a good time to maybe actually take your portfolio and get more aggressive. I know again, it’s counterintuitive and it might be against your plan and your philosophy. But like we were saying a few minutes ago, it’s a little bit easier to time things on the way down. And so maybe you put a little bit more money in, maybe you take your percentage allocation and stocks a little bit higher because they’re now cheaper. But be flexible with your plan and don’t be afraid to make a change.

Joshua Winterswyk: Yeah. And I agree with you Matt, you have to be flexible because we can’t predict the market. So being flexible is again, just going to allow you to make better decisions.

Matthew Theal: Yeah, I agree.

Brent Pasqua: All right. Number six, stick with your plan. What’s your thoughts on this, Josh?

Joshua Winterswyk: This is just like perfect for 2020, this year has just been such a roller coaster, not only with the market but just with news. And sticking to your plan again allows you to not be influenced by all of the events that have happened in a particular year or timeframe. And allowing your investments and really getting the benefit of the market, we are investing to get return on our money. That’s the whole goal is we want our money to accumulate or even if you want capital preservation, but sticking to that plan allows you to achieve those goals. And if you did this year it’s just a great example of how it benefited you because this year ended positive or this last year I should say.

Matthew Theal: And if you didn’t stick to your plan, get back on it. If you pulled money out in March and you’ve been sitting here wondering why the stock market’s going higher and you haven’t done anything about it. Contact an advisor, do it yourself, it doesn’t matter, but get back in there because you’re hurting yourself.

Brent Pasqua: Yeah. I feel like when the market’s dropping that’s not a good time to change your thoughts on your plan. You’re probably changing your plan when you have a life change or your job changes, something happens within your family. Those require changes to your plan. It’s hard to continue to focus on those with the year that we had last year, but even with the downtimes that we saw in the market. You could still stick with your plan if your goals haven’t changed and stick to the plan and ride it out.

Joshua Winterswyk: Yeah, absolutely.

Brent Pasqua: And be able to lean on someone that you trust that can help you stick with it as well. And number seven the last one don’t listen to the news. I think this one’s fun, considering everything that we’ve had not only in 2020, but already to start 2021. How can really the news impact your future, your money, your life, your investing.

Matthew Theal: So I’ve said it before on the podcast, but the news makes money when you turn in. The newspaper, CNN, Fox News, whatever your news is, they make money when you either pay for it or tune in, therefore it’s in their best interest to scare you and keep you tuned in. You should probably just turn it off and stop looking at it. It’s not going to make you any money. All it’s going to do is make you really mad, possibly confuse you and make you make bad decisions. Steve jobs, Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk they’re not sitting around all day watching the news. It’s toxic. My rants done.

Joshua Winterswyk: Yeah, no, it was good. I was hoping there was a little more. But a good just thought to this as well is all of that commentary and it changes. When you’re watching the news, they’re always talking something new, a new investment, a new strategy, and all of that commentary can really challenge that plan, challenge, that discipline, challenge your philosophy. And why do you want that distraction? Watch the news to stay informed. Don’t watch the news for investment advice. Do your own research, hire an advisor like we talked about. And the latest investment fad there’s going to be a new one tomorrow. So don’t let that take you off course of what you’ve really planned for.

Brent Pasqua: How many people are watching the news in March and April saying, “I should invest more money in the stock market.”

Joshua Winterswyk: It’s all red. Turn on the TV. And it’s just total fear of red dropping back in March is what I’m talking about. But does that tell investors this is a really good time to take some of my money and invest more? Probably not.

Brent Pasqua: You had the best opportunity that you’re probably going to have in the next decade. And you just watched the news to teach you and tell you, “You shouldn’t be doing that.” You’d lost that whole opportunity because it’s so toxic and it takes you off all the things that we’ve been talking about, all the important fundamentals it takes to be a successful investor. And all the lessons that we learned, don’t let the news change you from what your goals are.

Joshua Winterswyk: Totally.

Matthew Theal: Absolutely. It’s the best buying opportunity since 2009.

Brent Pasqua: Yeah. We could have watched it all go away instead we just ignored that noise and we followed the philosophy and the fundamentals and I think that’s what keeps you on the successful track.

Announcer: It’s time for RPA Recommends.

Brent Pasqua: All right. Let’s get into the last part of the show RPA recommends. It might be a little bit harder after we just got through the holiday season, but what do you have for us now?

Joshua Winterswyk: I’ll start. So my wife for Christmas got me some Thursday Boots and I have one. I’ve been looking at them for a while and she finally, or not finally, but she got me some for Christmas and love them so far. Really comfy I was looking for some new boots, mine were thrashed, just for more casual wear. But they have men’s, women’s and really, really enjoyed the boot so far been wanting them for a while and I’m wearing them today. So you guys can check them out.

Brent Pasqua: I’ve never heard of them have you?

Matthew Theal: He showed them to me awhile ago that he was interested in them. I’m going to make a slight crack at Josh. Like all Josh things, it took nine to 12 months for him to actually pull the trigger.

Joshua Winterswyk: And I didn’t even pull the trigger my wife bought them for me.

Brent Pasqua: What do you have for us?

Matthew Theal: I have a weird recommendation for me. I’m going to be coming up with some different ones now that I’m a homeowner. And this one’s a shout out to my mom who got me this little house warming gift but it’s some soap and it’s called Dawn Powerwash. I actually believe it’s pretty hard to get, so I’m going to be a little disappointed when my bottle runs out but it’s for doing the dishes. And essentially it’s a spray bottle and you just spray it on your dish then you take your towel, your rag and you clean your dish and then you dry it off and it’s done.

Brent Pasqua: Is it a foam?

Matthew Theal: Yeah. It’s like a foaming spray bottle soap but it’s like the best one I’ve ever seen. And so my mom was swearing by it, I used and loved it. My mother-in-law was over at my house and she was using it and she’s like, “Oh, I got to go find this.” It’s really good and I think it’s probably like five, $6. Highly recommended it.

Joshua Winterswyk: I definitely need to check that out. I think I’ve seen that. There’s a following to it, people really love that stuff though I’ll have to check that out, good recommendation.

Brent Pasqua: Yeah. I’ll have to check it out as well. I haven’t heard of it either, but I haven’t heard of the Thursday Boots and I’m excited now that I have something to go look for.

Matthew Theal: I think Target for people who are looking for it is from my understanding.

Brent Pasqua: If people are like me, I don’t carry around a wallet, never have. I don’t like the feeling of something, like a thick wallet in my pocket. So it’s been this big challenge I’ve always gone through. I’ve lost my driver’s license, a couple of different times taking my phone out of my pocket. And so I’ve always just carried my cash and wallet in my pocket, which has probably been a huge mistake for so long, obviously because I’ve lost things.

Joshua Winterswyk: You’re not one of those guys that has a big wallet with all your receipts in it.

Brent Pasqua: No, I can’t sit on my wallet. I can’t put one in my back pocket, it’s just not for me. So I did actually get one of those Apple Wallet cases and it just attaches to the back of your phone. And so now my cards are just in my Apple Wallet. It attaches to the phone and I’m feeling really good about hopefully now not losing my cards.

Joshua Winterswyk: Do you like it so far?

Brent Pasqua: Yeah, I do.

Joshua Winterswyk: Does it latch on there pretty well?

Brent Pasqua: Yeah. So it sits on there really tight and you really got to give it a good pull for it to come off. And when it’s in your pocket, it’s not dislodging from the phone. So it’s probably the solution that I really needed. My phone’s already going to be in my pocket in some capacity it doesn’t really add anything to my pockets.

Matthew Theal: If you wanted to could you take it off and use it like a card holder?

Brent Pasqua: Yeah, absolutely.

Matthew Theal: Like if you were just like, “I want to keep my cards in my pocket, but I want to hold my phone.”

Brent Pasqua: Yes, absolutely.

Joshua Winterswyk: I think that might motivate me to get the new phone. I really like the setup.

Brent Pasqua: Yeah. Apple is just brilliant.

Matthew Theal: Yeah, I agree. I was at the barbershop the other day and my barber had one. I was like, “Ooh. That’s pretty clean.” I might have to get one of them.

Brent Pasqua: So Joshua said he wants a new Apple phone. We’ll inform everybody by the time he gets it. So we’re probably looking at-

Joshua Winterswyk: Summer.

Brent Pasqua: … Thanksgiving.

Matthew Theal: What iPhone are we on is it iPhone 12 or 13?

Joshua Winterswyk: Whoa, whoa, whoa. I’m going to take that back though. I was on the annual renewal, I waited an extra year and it’s been a little longer than I thought but I’ll give an update the next show.

Brent Pasqua: The new one will be out by November, so at that point you’re probably just going to be waiting to anyway.

Matthew Theal: You should just wait at this point.

Brent Pasqua: Yeah. As advisors though we truly do love helping people and that’s why we do it. That’s why we put out this content, that’s why we put out these shows. If you’d like to schedule an appointment with any of us, please go to and schedule a complimentary consultation, and also download our ebook from our website. And if you’d like the show notes, please go to As always thanks for listening to the Retirement Plan Playbook. And thanks for listening to us.

Joshua Winterswyk: Thank you. Happy new year.

Matthew Theal: Thank you.

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