The X’s & O’s

There is no doubt that California is one of the most expensive states to live in. Between the cost of living, traffic, and recent tax law change, many people are starting to wonder if they should move to a different state to enjoy their retirement in. Today’s episode looks at the pros and cons to this situation and offers some suggestions that may be beneficial to you.

WalletHub Article

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Burgers Never Say Die


Listen to the podcast episode…

The Hosts:

Brent Pasqua, Matthew Theal and Joshua Winterswyk




Matthew Theal: Welcome to the Retirement Plan Playbook. I’m Matthew Theal, joined as always by Joshua Winterswyk. Josh, how’s your day treating you?

Joshua Winterswyk: I’m doing well, Matt, thanks.

Matthew Theal: It’s great to see you. And we’re also joined by our captain, fearless leader, president of RPA Wealth Management, Brent Pasqua. Brent, how are you doing?

Brent Pasqua: I’m doing excellent, Matt. Super excited for today’s show and excited to be here.

Matthew Theal: Me too, I’m really excited for today’s show. What are we going to be talking to our listeners about today?

Brent Pasqua: Today we are going to talk about moving out of California to retire in a state with no state income tax. We’ve had actually many clients move out of state during retirement, and this has been a hot discussion point and a hot topic.

Matthew Theal: Yeah, this is really a popular topic, right? Especially with the 2017, was it, tax reform?

Brent Pasqua: Correct.

Matthew Theal: Yeah, making it so you can’t write off state income taxes up to the capital threshold now of $10,000, so a lot of people are migrating out of high tax states like California and New York.

Joshua Winterswyk: I guess the first question would be is, really, why would anybody want to move out of California? I mean, the beaches are great. The coastline is beautiful. The weather is pretty outstanding except for in July, August, and half of September when it’s just miserably hot, but that’s more inland. So in a lot of parts of California, the weather is pretty outstanding. There’s an unlimited amount of things to do here. There’s tons of good restaurants, tons of activities you could do whether you’re young or old. So why would anybody actually want to move out of California?

Matthew Theal: Yeah, I’m not sure. I’m going to talk about myself for a minute. A quick aside, I left California, went to New York. It was really cold, really cold in the winter. It wasn’t fun. I came back to California and I don’t really see myself ever leaving.

Joshua Winterswyk: Colder than Chicago?

Matthew Theal: Oh dude, it was much colder than Chicago.

Joshua Winterswyk: I mean, how do you compare the winter towards the heat in California, where like we’re in the midst of the desert right now?

Matthew Theal: It doesn’t compare. It literally gets dark at like 4:00 on the East Coast in the winter, and it’s freezing cold. Who wants to live like that? Well, anyways, reasons why you might want to leave the state of California. I’ll stay on track now. One is, it’s very expensive to live here.

Joshua Winterswyk: True.

Matthew Theal: I mean, we live in Rancho Cucamonga, which is truly not that desirable of a city in California, I think it’s pretty fair to say. Correcting that, it’s like a suburb or an exurb. It’s pretty far to commute to Los Angeles or Orange County from here, but it still has super high real estate prices because so many people want to live here.

Joshua Winterswyk: Absolutely.

Matthew Theal: What’s the average home price, Josh, like $500,000 in Rancho, it feels like, at least?

Brent Pasqua: At least.

Joshua Winterswyk: Yeah, a little over $500,000.

Matthew Theal: For a starter home, and then upwards to a million if you want a little bigger home with a gated community?

Brent Pasqua: Yeah, if you get further towards the foothills, the more expensive it gets, just like anywhere else.

Matthew Theal: Yeah, that’s crazy. Then a lot of people also, I mean, the world’s become real political, and they disagree with the politics of California. The state’s moved very, very far left. This isn’t a politics show, but some people don’t like the state’s stances on issues.

Brent Pasqua: Right. The other thing, too, is it’s very crowded. I mean, you can’t get anywhere most of the day without hitting a ton of traffic if you’ve got to go down the freeway. It used to be that if you left, let’s say you were coming from LA more inland, if you left between 11:00 and 3:00 you can get back without traffic. Now there’s very little time. There’s no open freeway. I mean, you’re going to be sitting in traffic no matter which way you’re going at any time of day. And it’s now become like that on the weekends, so traffic is sometimes just really unbearable around here.

Joshua Winterswyk: And It’s going in every direction.

Brent Pasqua: Absolutely.

Joshua Winterswyk: So Los Angeles, Orange County, and now even if you’re going to Temecula, which has become very popular, San Diego, the 15, there’s traffic every day you take it, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. It doesn’t matter which day, so I agree.

Brent Pasqua: I mean, even if you have things fun planned in other cities, you just have to take in consideration the major traffic that you’re going to be sitting in just to get there.

Matthew Theal: Yeah, absolutely.

Brent Pasqua: And I know a lot of states don’t have to deal with that type of drastic traffic.

Matthew Theal: Yeah. I think when we were in Austin for Joshua’s bachelor party, I remember one of the drivers like “Oh, we’re hitting some traffic now.” And I don’t even think it was traffic. It was just like a slowdown maybe, like the car had to slow down.

Brent Pasqua: Just a real quick story. I was in Jacksonville for a conference and the guy’s like “Oh, there’s some traffic. The factory workers just got off a little early.” I was like “That’s the traffic?”

Matthew Theal: Yeah.

Joshua Winterswyk: So what are some other reasons people would want to retire outside the state?

Brent Pasqua: Well, another reason would be, let’s say you’re a little older and your kids have moved out of the state. Maybe their job relocated or they decided it was better for them to raise their family in a state that wasn’t California. So you know, you want to be near your grandkids, so you’re going to move near your kids.

Joshua Winterswyk: I think it’s happening a lot with Texas. There’s just a lot of opportunity. We were just talking about Austin and Texas, so kids moving to Texas and the parents following them.

Brent Pasqua: Yeah. There’s a lot of job opportunities in other states, and not everyone feels the need to stay here.

Matthew Theal: Yeah. And then another reason why you might want to leave is you really, when you retire, have no reason to be here.

Brent Pasqua: Right.

Matthew Theal: If you had a career in your community in Los Angeles or you’re doing business in Orange County, or even if you do business in the inland empire, maybe you own a factory or some kind of production facility out here, when you retire you actually don’t need that economy of California any more.

Brent Pasqua: Right.

Matthew Theal: It’s useless to you. so you can leave.

Brent Pasqua: Good point.

Joshua Winterswyk: Right.

Brent Pasqua: And obviously the state tax is just so high here. You know, when you are retired that’s not helping you at all.

Matthew Theal: Yeah. No, it’s not helping you at all. It’s actually hurting you quite a bit. The last reason is because of the tax law change, that a lot of people are leaving. and I know it’s become kind of a problem in California, but also in New York and up and down that Eastern seaboard, where they do have those high, desirable, high tax states.

Joshua Winterswyk: So then I guess my next question would be, is what are the zero tax states, then?

Matthew Theal: We actually pulled a list up. We got this from WalletHub, and it’s ranked by the tax burden. So this is going to be all zero tax states, and then with their affordability, and then their best state to live in ranking, which, it looks highly subjective to me. I mean, I’m looking at the two states they have ranked number one and number two, and I wouldn’t wish those two states on my worst enemy. Okay, but I guess I’ll just read them off and we could discuss them.

Joshua Winterswyk: And I think, can we put them in the show notes too?

Matthew Theal: Yeah, we could attach them to the show notes. But Alaska, Tennessee, Florida, New Hampshire, South Dakota, Wyoming, Texas, Washington, Nevada. And that’s the ranking from I guess what they would call the cheapest tax burden to the highest, but they’re all no tax states. So what we mean by that is you don’t pay income tax, you don’t pay state income tax essentially.

Joshua Winterswyk: Right.

Matthew Theal: Brent, what’s your favorite?

Brent Pasqua: You know, I thought about this a lot. If I had to pick, I don’t know that I could pick one. If I was forced to move out of California, I would probably either go to Texas, although the weather is a little bit humid, there are some beautiful areas in Texas. Being in Austin, there’s some outstanding restaurants and it’s a great city to be in. So it’d be either be Texas or possibly Tennessee. I’ve been to Tennessee before. It’s a beautiful state. I like the countryside, I like the country feel of it and the green landscape. So those would be my two options. I did look up New Hampshire. It has some beautiful coastlines, I’m sure in the winter it gets really, really cold.

Matthew Theal: Yeah. New Hampshire would be on my “I’ll avoid” list. Kind of shocked.

Brent Pasqua: I was going to throw three out there, but then you started with your “I’ll avoid,” so I just kind of came off of it.

Matthew Theal: But Tennessee, man, that’s coming out of right field for that. I wouldn’t see that. Would you see Tennessee?

Joshua Winterswyk: No, I didn’t expect Tennessee at all, no.

Brent Pasqua: I mean, being there before, it’s a beautiful state.

Matthew Theal: That’s what I’ve heard. Joshua, what about you?

Joshua Winterswyk: A favorite? Like for me to personally move to, I really liked Austin. I guess my number one, having gone to Austin and to Texas, really liked that city. And maybe Nevada. I’d like to be close to the West Coast. I grew up here, I love it, I’m not going to lie. Washington, Nevada, staying on this side of the continent would probably be my choice.

Brent Pasqua: You’re going to stay in the middle of the desert.

Joshua Winterswyk: Yeah. Then just come back to California, I don’t mind driving four hours.

Matthew Theal: There’s a lot of benefits to the state of Nevada if you have certain vices. It’s kind of starting to change and lose its luster as gambling’s becoming … Especially as sports gambling is becoming legalized across the country. Yeah, Nevada sounds attractive.

Joshua Winterswyk: Yeah.

Brent Pasqua: And a lot of retirees enjoy that atmosphere and that environment, and they love Vegas. They don’t mind being 20 minutes from the strip.

Matthew Theal: Yeah. And the nice thing too is, all right, let’s just kind of roll through these. Like Florida, no, there’s hurricanes. That’s cool, I’ll pass. Alaska, it’s dark. Like it’s light two hours out of the year in the winter, right? No, that’s a pass. New Hampshire, cold. Tennessee’s probably really humid in the summer. I would say South Dakota, Wyoming, Texas, and Nevada are the only options.

Brent Pasqua: South Dakota’s really cold, isn’t it? In the winter?

Matthew Theal: It is, but it is beautiful, isn’t it?

Brent Pasqua: Yeah.

Matthew Theal: But yeah, that’s probably out. I’m staying in California. But yeah, that’s where my research should start to get deeper, is at the bottom of that list.

Joshua Winterswyk: Texas, Washington, Nevada.

Matthew Theal: Well, here’s the negative thing I know about Washington, is they have high property prices because of Microsoft and Amazon. I actually have an aunt and uncle who live up there. Let me tell you guys, it rains a lot up there. If there’s two things I hate, I left from New York that I hate, one is rain. Two is the winter. Rain is awful.

Brent Pasqua: Yeah, we have clients in Washington and they’re always complaining about how rainy it is and how dark it is. It’s always cloudy. And there’s some summers where they don’t even get the full summer because the clouds just kind of carry through part of July. And then winter starts early. And after being here in California for so long if you go three or four days without seeing the sun, that starts to wear on you. I can’t imagine when they go three or four months with barely seeing the sun.

Matthew Theal: Yeah, it’s miserable.

Brent Pasqua: Yeah.

Matthew Theal: You don’t want any part of that. All right, so I guess now we’re going to walk through some scenarios. Josh, what’s our first scenario look like?

Joshua Winterswyk: Well, we’re going to talk about two types of move. The first is a full move out of the state of California, and the second is a partial move out of the state of California while taking up residency in a zero tax state. Matt, can you take the first scenario for us and walk us through it?

Matthew Theal: Yeah, I will. So we’re going to talk about two hypothetical clients. Brent, Josh, have you guys ever met Bob and Jane before?

Joshua Winterswyk: Yeah.

Brent Pasqua: Yeah, they’re our sample client and our financial client, they’re outstanding people.

Matthew Theal: They’re great. So they’re a husband and wife and they have retirement assets of exactly $1 million. They don’t have a penny more. And that would be IRA assets. And then they have a brokerage account with 200,000. They would like to make 120,000 of income in retirement. Currently, their combined social security equals $60,000, and they have a pension of 40,000. So when you add those two together you get 100, which means they’re short 20,000 of their retirement goal. And so we would have to take that from, obviously, their investment account. Make sense?

Joshua Winterswyk: Yeah. Yeah, great job.

Matthew Theal: So they want to move to another state. Brent, how do we accomplish that for them?

Brent Pasqua: So what we did is we simulated this into the financial plan, and what we’ve found is if they had moved to Nevada, over the life of their retirement they would save approximately $156,000 in retirement and tax savings. That would save them approximately, let’s just say based on life expectancy, somewhere around $3,000 to $4,000 a year just by moving out of California and having that tax state friendly state.

Matthew Theal: That’s awesome. You know, Bob told me, he was like … When we ran this hypothetical for him in the office, he’s a big gambler, and he was like “Man, that’s 4,000 more dollars I could bet on football.”

Brent Pasqua: Absolutely.

Matthew Theal: So he was really stoked.

Brent Pasqua: In reality, we have ran this multiple times for many clients doing financial planning, where they’ve wanted to explore what happens if they moved to a more tax friendly state. And when they did that and they start to see the tax savings, it does become more appealing for them to come out of California and go to one of those States. It is a huge thing that people are starting to think about, and they become more prepared as they start to get closer to retirement to think about, because there is sometimes less of a draw to stay here.

Joshua Winterswyk: And it can be just one more variable that you’re bringing clarity to for them, to kind of check that off of their list of when they’re deciding whether to move or not. Because we’ve talked about all of the reasons why you would move. I’m sure with everyone listening, and even if we were considering it, there’d be five or six different things that we wanted to research before we moved. And knowing the tax implications, now we can move on to the next thing to making sure that this move is right for us.

Brent Pasqua: Right. And what we’ve seen from a lot of clients is, they start to get close to retirement and then they’re thinking “Okay, well, my house is worth X, 600,000, 700,000, 800,000. They’re getting closer to being paid off and they’re starting to think “Well, I can go to another friendly state, buy a brand new house cash or pretty close to cash, and then build it the way we want it, because a lot of times these are new construction projects, or remodel a house, and pretty much live in this beautiful house that we’ve always wanted, and in a state that has no state income tax, and live pretty comfortable. And sometimes their kids are there, sometimes they’re closer to the areas that they want to be in, sometimes it’s more conducive to retirement.

Brent Pasqua: So it becomes a lot more appealing for them to say “There’s nothing really keeping us here in California. Let’s head out to one of these other states and live this lifestyle that we really always dreamed of,” and it fits them. And those states can be any of these states that are on this list.

Matthew Theal: Yeah. One thing too, I think those communities, they’re, I’m going to call it a little slower-paced than living in southern California, right? They’re more, I guess, mom and pop friendly, right?

Brent Pasqua: Absolutely. There’s not the traffic, the dollar stretches further, they can live that lifestyle, really, that they’ve always wanted.

Matthew Theal: They don’t have smog blowing in from LA.

Brent Pasqua: Correct.

Joshua Winterswyk: And like you said with the housing as well, I mean, in California the median listing price for the home right now is $550,000. If we’re using Nevada as the example, it’s just a little over $300 for the same square footage of a house. So taking that home that you have paid off or next to paid off in California, now selling that and moving in retirement, you’re just getting so much more bang for your buck on top of the tax savings we just talked about.

Brent Pasqua: Yeah. And then you think about people who have lived in their house for 25 or 30 years, and they have wear and tear in their house, and they’re thinking “Well, my house on the market is worth $700,000 or $800,000.” And then all of a sudden you can move from your house to a brand new house for half the price in another state. I mean, that’s a pretty valuable exchange right there.

Joshua Winterswyk: Yeah, absolutely. So I guess the next question is, can I buy a second property in a zero state tax state, but stay in California?

Matthew Theal: You can, but it’s super tricky. I did a lot of research on this and so did Joshua, and we came up with really the five things the IRS looks for and how you can accomplish this. But I’ll read them off and then we’ll explain them, but they look at your home, your business, time spent in the state, your possessions, and then essentially where your family is. But I’ll start with the first one, home. Basically they look at where you have your bigger residence. And I believe here what they do is they go off of square footage. So if you have a big home in California and you buy a small home in Washington and you try to take up residency in Washington, that’s most likely not going to work, because your bigger, more expensive home is in California. Josh, what’s the next one?

Joshua Winterswyk: Business. So if you are a business owner or you’re active in a business, the majority of your business needs to be conducted in that zero tax state. So I live in both California, back and forth between California and Nevada, the majority of my business activities have to be done in Nevada.

Matthew Theal: Right. That makes a lot of sense. That’s pretty straightforward. The next is time. And what we mean by time is how often you’re actually sleeping in that state. So you need to stay in the state you’re trying to take up residence in essentially two nights for every one night. And you need to keep accurate records.

Brent Pasqua: I want to cut in there. How are you going to keep track of where you sleep every night?

Matthew Theal: That’s a great question. Well, there’s a couple of things. One is, your cell phone tracks your location, I don’t know if you guys are aware of this.

Brent Pasqua: Yes.

Joshua Winterswyk: Right.

Matthew Theal: So every time your cell phone is pinging towers and GPS location, so all they need to do is really just get your cell phone records, and they’ll know exactly where you’ve been.

Brent Pasqua: Interesting.

Matthew Theal: And they do that. But a company has came out with an app called TaxBird, which will track your location and keep record of it for you. So if you really want to do this, I would highly suggest downloading that app and start tracking your location.

Joshua Winterswyk: That’s awesome. Is that app free, do you know?

Matthew Theal: I’m not sure. I didn’t really look into it, but it came across on the research and I was like “Hey, that’s cool.” But even if it’s not free, it’s still probably worth it to pay for it. Because I’d rather pay for an app than have the IRS banging down my door.

Brent Pasqua: Absolutely.

Joshua Winterswyk: Yeah, no, definitely. I’ll take the next one. We got near and dear. Were you all finished up with time?

Matthew Theal: Yeah, yeah. There’s nothing else. This is straightforward, I get it.

Joshua Winterswyk: Yeah, you got it. Near and dear, the next one. So where do you keep your insurance riders and your near and dear possessions? So to explain this as well, so you have valuable possessions. Where are they held, where are they located? And then also, where are you holding your insurance, not only policy and riders for yourself, those possessions, and your property, and where is that being held? So to just summarize that, we need to make sure that all of your policies and your near and dear possessions are in that zero tax state if you’re using this strategy.

Matthew Theal: Yeah. And then the final one is family. This, though, really probably doesn’t matter as much to a retiree, because your kids should hopefully be grown, and hopefully if you’ve been blessed you have grandchildren. But this is more for, I guess, younger families who are trying to take advantage of state tax laws. But where your children go to school matters. So you can’t live and take up residence in Nevada and send your kids to school in, essentially, Los Angeles. It’s pretty straight forward.

Joshua Winterswyk: That makes sense. So needless to say, it seems like they’re watching you.

Matthew Theal: They are watching you. And they, meaning the IRS, they’re coming hard after people who are doing this with the law. I think, Josh, you had a pretty neat stat, right?

Joshua Winterswyk: Yeah. I think when people move out of state are using the two residency scenario, their audit rate goes up to close to 100%.

Matthew Theal: Wow.

Joshua Winterswyk: So taking all of the steps that we just talked about and making sure that you’re set up for this move both on the tax side and the law side is very important, because the last thing you want is to get audited when you’re making this big transition. Obviously this is a big life-changing event.

Brent Pasqua: So the moral of the story is, is don’t buy a house in Nevada and live in California and be in Nevada for two months out of the year. You have to follow the rules.

Matthew Theal: Yeah, you do. It needs to be actually up to at least nine months, based on the math.

Brent Pasqua: Absolutely.

Matthew Theal: Yeah.

Brent Pasqua: Yeah, but some people think “Oh, I can go buy this property in Nevada and only really be there for two months, and spend the most of my time in California and pay no state tax.”

Joshua Winterswyk: Not knowing that there is very specific steps and rules and laws that you have to take out. Absolutely.

Matthew Theal: Yeah. And when Bob and Jane came into our office, hypothetical client, but that’s what they wanted to do. So we helped Bob actually lay out a pretty cool scenario, because like I mentioned, he’s a big time gambler. He loves betting football and he loves the ponies as well. But essentially, what they did was they purchased a larger home in Nevada. Well, I’ll start first. They sold their California home, so they had the cash. Then they purchased a large home in the suburbs of Las Vegas, and they took what was left and they purchased a condo where their children live. Because they want to spend more time with their grandkids.

Brent Pasqua: Okay.

Matthew Theal: They use TaxBird app, and for nine months out of the year they’re living in Nevada.

Brent Pasqua: Where was their condo at?

Matthew Theal: Their condo is somewhere in southern California.

Brent Pasqua: Nice.

Matthew Theal: Near their kids, yeah. It’s working out so far for them. They spend three months during the summer while their children are working, babysitting their grandkids. So they’re getting that good grandkid time in. To do this, though, they took some very, very detailed steps. The first thing they did was they moved every single belonging from California to Nevada. So they didn’t buy new belongings in Nevada, they had a moving truck drive their old house to their new house, and they bought new belongings for their California condo.

Brent Pasqua: Okay.

Matthew Theal: Make sense?

Brent Pasqua: Yep.

Matthew Theal: By hiring a moving company and not doing it themselves, they created a paper trail. They changed their mailing address and bills on their investment accounts to Nevada, so all their brokerage accounts or retirement accounts all go through the Nevada home, not the California home. They updated their trust to Nevada state trust laws.

Joshua Winterswyk: That’s a big one. I think that’s really, really overlooked.

Matthew Theal: Yeah.

Joshua Winterswyk: About if you have a living trust established and you are moving out of state. You can talk a little bit about that?

Matthew Theal: Each state has different, essentially, rules when you pass. And California’s are very strict, meaning that most people need to get a trust done or else their properties will go to probate. But your trust you have done in California is absolutely useless to you when you leave the state of California.

Brent Pasqua: Right, I mean, the medical laws are different if you have your healthcare directives, and the language of the trust is probably written a little different.

Joshua Winterswyk: Yeah, and then each state has their own separate estate laws as well.

Matthew Theal: Yeah. And then I could be wrong, but I believe lawyers are only licensed to practice in the state of California. So then you need to hire a lawyer that’s licensed in the state of Nevada or Washington or wherever you end up.

Joshua Winterswyk: Just another step to add to the list.

Brent Pasqua: Right.

Matthew Theal: So after changing pretty much everything, vehicle registration, estate planning, documents, bills, investment accounts, they’ve created that necessary paper trail where they have officially moved to Nevada. And this should work. They need to run this by a tax person, but essentially they’re hitting all the dots there.

Brent Pasqua: Yeah, so they’re passing the test on this one.

Matthew Theal: I think so. And God, Bob is happy. He’s out there, he’s betting football, betting ponies, and they’re spending the summers with their grandkids. What could be better, right?

Joshua Winterswyk: He has the Raiders coming to to Vegas in a few years, right?

Matthew Theal: Yeah, he says if he hits this next parlay, he’s buying season tickets. There you go. Anything else to add, guys?

Joshua Winterswyk: No, that’s good.

Brent Pasqua: No, I think it’s a great option for people to consider. If your house is worth enough and you want to live in two states and it makes sense for you to downsize in California and go buy your other home in another state, and buy newer at a cheaper price, it could really accomplish some of those retirement dreams that many people want to live, and just a little bit more comfortable of a lifestyle and having options. I mean, that’s nice. Who wouldn’t want to bounce back from two different places? And it really opens up a lot of opportunities.

Matthew Theal: Yeah, it creates flexibility.

Brent Pasqua: Absolutely.

Joshua Winterswyk: And just to kind of piggyback on that, we talked about taxes and focused a lot about downsizing of square footage for housing, but just the cost of living in the other states.

Matthew Theal: Right.

Joshua Winterswyk: You know, the cost to go out to dinner is lower. and that’s just another advantage to making your retirement dollars stretch, or for anyone interested in moving out of state, where it is too expensive for them in California.

Brent Pasqua: Yeah, and a lot of our clients who have moved, they’re always wondering, “Well, are you still going to work with us if we move to another state?” And so many people now do virtual appointments, and we do virtual appointments with so many of our clients. So even though our clients move out of state, we’re meeting with them on every four month basis, going over their planning, and they’re out of state. And it’s just like they’re here in the office. You know, we have the video camera, we sync up the computers, and everything is like it’s just here, and we just keep rolling through this.

Brent Pasqua: So it’s an easy transition working through the numbers with our clients, but also helping them get through that transition as easy as possible.

Joshua Winterswyk: And giving them one less thing to worry about.

Brent Pasqua: Absolutely.

Joshua Winterswyk: And I think we’re promoters of it, if it can provide them a better lifestyle. We’re open to all of the ideas.

Brent Pasqua: Yeah. I mean, a lot of clients who live in California want to do virtual now because they don’t want to fight the traffic.

Joshua Winterswyk: Yeah. They don’t want to take the 45-minute trip from Claremont.

Brent Pasqua: Yeah.

Matthew Theal: Anything to add?

Brent Pasqua: No, I think that’s really awesome options for people.

Matthew Theal: Yeah, absolutely. And one thing I will say, because this is very technical, don’t attempt this on your own. Talk with an advisor, talk with a CPA. Make sure you document all the correct steps. It’s not easy.

Joshua Winterswyk: And like you talked about moving out of state, even the estate planner. So just a lot of … Talking to your team before you even start this move is very important.

Matthew Theal: Right.

Brent Pasqua: It’s not easy to do it on your own, but if you have a few of the professionals around you, it’s not complicated either. You hire the right people, they help you, assist you through it, you know what to do, you document, and you’re off. It’s not something that’s super complicated, but if you hire the right people it just makes it that much easier. To do it on your own is very complicated.

Matthew Theal: Yes, I agree.

Brent Pasqua: And we have so many people inquiring right now about moving, existing clients and just even family and friends that ask about moving out of state, and what do I know? I know you guys have gotten the questions too. It’s just an extremely hot topic.

Matthew Theal: Absolutely. All right. Anything left to add on moving out of state?

Brent Pasqua: No, I think it was good.

Matthew Theal: Well, since we’re still searching for our podcast sponsor, I thought we would make a new segment. And vacations have died down, Josh, I know you have one coming up in a month or two, but maybe we’ll talk about that in a few shows. But I thought we’d do, because it was so popular, you guys remember our gift guides we did, the RPA holiday gift guide and then the wives gift guide?

Brent Pasqua: Yeah, I think they’re still on the website, right?

Matthew Theal: They are still …

Brent Pasqua: Or on our Facebook page.

Matthew Theal: On the website.

Joshua Winterswyk: Are you previewing that, are we going to do that again?

Matthew Theal: Yeah, we are going to do that again.

Joshua Winterswyk: That was hot topic for everyone.

Matthew Theal: Very, very popular. Some people got some really nice Christmas gifts because of our gift guides. But anyway, so I thought we’d do RPA recommends, where we each recommend something that our listeners could check out that’s not really financial related unless it is, you really want to recommend something financial related. Who wants to take it first?

Joshua Winterswyk: I’ll go first, Matt. This last weekend we went out to dinner on Saturday night, and I just wanted to recommend something I hadn’t had before. So it is just a burger, cheeseburger, but the burger place is in Los Angeles, and it’s called Burgers Never Say Die, I think it’s the full name of it. But I think it’s a Chicago style burger, where they like smash the hamburger patty down. So the hamburger patty’s really, really thin and the edges are all crispy. I’ve never had this style of cheeseburger before, and it was amazing.

Matthew Theal: That sounds good.

Brent Pasqua: Yeah, it sounds great.

Joshua Winterswyk: It’s really good. And I think you can get them at Smorgasbord, which is like this food festival every Sunday in LA, or they have a storefront in Los Angeles too. But I was just really impressed by this burger and probably would have even went back the next day, but they’re closed on Sundays. But really, really, really good.

Brent Pasqua: Is it in Silver Lake? Echo Park?

Joshua Winterswyk: Yeah, it’s in Silver Lake, and Burgers Never Say Die is the name. And I guess we could put it in the show notes too, if anyone wants to check it out. Or just check out their Instagram.

Matthew Theal: Yeah, we can link it. And one thing I’ll say too, for a lot of people who don’t travel to Los Angeles, I find the majority of people go to two places in Los Angeles. One, downtown LA, and two, Hollywood or kind of the old Hollywood where the walk of fame is. Two areas. Downtown’s fun, but stay away from Hollywood. Silver Lake would be a really cool spot to check out if you have a bad impression of LA. Go get a burger, you can go for a hike. It’s nice.

Joshua Winterswyk: Yeah, really nice. That’s, I guess, another recommendation at the same time, just where me and my wife like to go and hang out and try new things and eat new food. So that’s just my food recommendation for this week.

Matthew Theal: Brent, what are you going to recommend?

Joshua Winterswyk: I’m going to recommend something that I actually have in my hand right now and something that I use almost every single day, and that’s my Yeti mug. I put my coffee in here. I’m a slow coffee drinker. I don’t like to drink my coffee fast, and it can sometimes last me two or three, four hours, and it stays warm the entire time. I mean, I was always on the search of, how do I keep my coffee warm? Because within 30 minutes your coffee is cold and you don’t want to drink it. Microwaving it just takes away some of the appeal. But the Yeti cup just keeps this thing warm. I use it pretty much, like I said, every day, and I highly recommend it for people who like to keep their coffee hot.

Matthew Theal: Yeah, I love Yeti products.

Joshua Winterswyk: There’s five Yeti cups in the room right now.

Brent Pasqua: Yeah.

Joshua Winterswyk: You guys got coffee, you have your waters.

Matthew Theal: I have another one on my desk.

Brent Pasqua: A valuable source.

Joshua Winterswyk: It is. I definitely like the Yeti mugs.

Matthew Theal: They came out with a lunchbox too, right?

Joshua Winterswyk: Yeah. Yeah, and they do like ice coolers and ice chests and everything else as well.

Brent Pasqua: Yeah, then they came up with a new coffee mug, which I need to get too.

Joshua Winterswyk: And is that going to be on the holiday gift guide for you?

Brent Pasqua: It should, absolutely.

Matthew Theal: Well, I want the lunch box, so if anybody’s listening who knows me, buy me the lunchbox, please.

Joshua Winterswyk: Matt, what do you have?

Matthew Theal: My recommendation is going to actually be a show that you could watch, streaming show on Netflix. It’s called Dark. It’s kind of like an adult version of Stranger Things. It’s a little creepy, but it has a really good storyline. It takes place in Germany and the show is in German. The English dub it so you can listen to English, but I would actually recommend putting the German subtitles on and reading, because it sounds much better that way. But great show. Check it out on Netflix. Season two just came out, so you’re not too far behind. I think a lot of people would enjoy it.

Brent Pasqua: When did the original season come out?

Matthew Theal: I believe last year.

Brent Pasqua: Oh, okay. It’s still pretty new.

Matthew Theal: Yeah. Oh, and actually it’s one of their more popular shows that doesn’t get a lot of press.

Brent Pasqua: Netflix’s, one of their most popular shows?

Matthew Theal: Yes.

Brent Pasqua: Is there any like well-known actors?

Matthew Theal: They all speak German. So no, unless you know German actors and actresses.

Joshua Winterswyk: I don’t. Brent, you know any German actors or actresses?

Brent Pasqua: No, I’m not good at that kind of stuff.

Joshua Winterswyk: I think of Inglorious Basterds, actually. I don’t know if they’re really German who play the Germans in that movie, though.

Matthew Theal: You know, that’s something else I could recommend, Tarantino’s new movie, past weekend.

Brent Pasqua: Oh, you saw that this weekend?

Matthew Theal: Yeah. Great movie. Highly recommend it, Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, I believe it’s called. Check that out if you like Tarantino, it is enjoyable.

Brent Pasqua: Awesome.

Matthew Theal: Anything left?

Brent Pasqua: No.

Matthew Theal: All right, well, we’ll go ahead and close the show. Thank you for joining us on the Retirement Plan Playbook. Please write a review and give us five stars on iTunes if you’re enjoying this show. And you could find out more about us by visiting and clicking on the podcast link on the top of the home page. Thank you, and have a great day.

Joshua Winterswyk: Thank you.

Brent Pasqua: Thanks.

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